Who's going to tune for ethanol? Performance Tuning

[DesertSweat]

I'm getting the hybrid for the wife, but I'm actually pretty interested in who want's to start modding and tuning out their ecoboost mavericks. I hope you guys get aftermarket support for tuning the ECU and we see people swapping turbos, bolt ons, and alternative fuels like ethanol

Edit: And to be clear this thread is discussing the performance benefits of ethanol and reading the rewards of ethanol to make a lot of power on the turbo engine by tuning.

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[JASmith]

Hopefully no one!

If a vehicle isn't designed from the ground up to be a high ethanol running vehicle, it means the ethanol can eat through seals, coatings, and can even cause internal engine damage. Ethanol is basically a super solvent.

Ethanol is also just crappy all around, it has a way shorter "shelf life" than regular gasoline as the ethanol slowly starts to come out of suspension and its way more likely to get contaminated by water because ethanol is super hydrophilic even wanting to suck the moisture out of the humid air in a thank that isn't topped off. Pretty much all vehicles that run high levels of ethanol will have shorter life spans, its the latest way to ensure planned obsolescence. But on the plus side, the more ethanol in the fuel the lower your fuel economy will be because its energy density is lower than gasoline... oh wait, that's another negative, heh!

And if Ford finds out you're running more than E15, they'll also invalidate your warranty and blacklist the vehicle. But hey, at least ethanol in our fuel isn't almost entirely made from corn which uses a crazy amount of water and pesticides and fossil fuel to grow... oh wait, it is!

tl;dr: ethanol sucks! boooooooooooooo!

 

[CLH917]

Yep, what she said. Ethanol free gas for me.

 

[DesertSweat]

Hopefully no one!

If a vehicle isn't designed from the ground up to be a high ethanol running vehicle, it means the ethanol can eat through seals, coatings, and can even cause internal engine damage. Ethanol is basically a super solvent.

Ethanol is also just crappy all around, it has a way shorter "shelf life" than regular gasoline as the ethanol slowly starts to come out of suspension and its way more likely to get contaminated by water because ethanol is super hydrophilic even wanting to suck the moisture out of the humid air in a thank that isn't topped off. Pretty much all vehicles that run high levels of ethanol will have shorter life spans, its the latest way to ensure planned obsolescence. But on the plus side, the more ethanol in the fuel the lower your fuel economy will be because its energy density is lower than gasoline... oh wait, that's another negative, heh!

And if Ford finds out you're running more than E15, they'll also invalidate your warranty and blacklist the vehicle. But hey, at least ethanol in our fuel isn't almost entirely made from corn which uses a crazy amount of water and pesticides and fossil fuel to grow... oh wait, it is!

tl;dr: ethanol sucks! boooooooooooooo!

This post is about making power.

It absolutely does not suck if you're trying to make power. The octane rating alone, especially the intrinsic octane when directly injected, makes it a very viable option for power. At 50% levels, you just can't get it to knock even at high timing and boost values. There have been studies ethanol on direct injection vehicles provide an intrinsic octane of 160. Can't remember if that was mon, ron, or AKI, but still incredibly impressive.

And almost all fuel lines today are fine with ethanol. I've seen some issues pop up on cam driven fuel pumps but seems to be only in some designs at ethanol levels >50%. But even on my 30 year old integra I used to have I ran E90 and had 0 issues when tuned for it (obviously). And then no issues on other vehicles when I was running 50-60% minus an in-tank fuel pump going out and then replacing with a high flow walbro.

So ethanol definitely doesn't suck. Only sucks if you're content being slow.

 

[GaMaverick]

Only place close to me that sells E85 is 20 minutes away. So I use straight up 93 for tunes. Although I’ll get a 87 performance, 93 performance, and 93 tow most likely.

 

[MaverickAngler]

Don’t quote me but I believe all vehicles after 08 are fine to use ethanol with proper tuning. Used to be fairly deep into it back when I had an SRT4 tuned for it

that being said ... for my Maverick I don’t now what I’ll do. Probably depend what the market comes out with. I’ll probably be plenty happy with a premium fuel tune. I can get 93 octane around here

 

[oljackfrost]

Don’t quote me but I believe all vehicles after 08 are fine to use ethanol with proper tuning. Used to be fairly deep into it back when I had an SRT4 tuned for it

that being said ... for my Maverick I don’t now what I’ll do. Probably depend what the market comes out with. I’ll probably be plenty happy with a premium fuel tune. I can get 93 octane around here

I don’t know about other manufacturers, but Subaru absolutely prohibits high ethanol fuels.

 

[fbov]

I'm getting the hybrid for the wife

This post is about making power.

Then I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.

Ethanol has less energy, so it gives you worse mileage in a hybrid. This is data from my C-Max. The middle data is 91E0, the left 93E10. At right is a reduction in tire pressure (long story). An EcoBoost might notice the octane, but the Hybrid will notice the energy content. Ethanol has 43% of gasoline's energy, in addition to its reliability issues.

Note I am not claiming this is a way to save money. E0 is not priced for the price conscious.

Remember, your engine is no longer connected to the road, so operating RPM changes very little, until you move your right foot. Your experience with conventional drivetrains won't apply when a power-split device is involved.

 

[JASmith]

I don’t know about other manufacturers, but Subaru absolutely prohibits high ethanol fuels.

Ford too:

Note: Use of any fuel for which the vehicle was not designed can impair the emission control system, cause loss of vehicle performance, and cause damage to the engine which may not be covered by the vehicle Warranty. Do not use: • Diesel fuel. • Fuels containing kerosene or paraffin. • Fuel containing more than 15% ethanol or E85 fuel.

 

[DesertSweat]

I don’t know about other manufacturers, but Subaru absolutely prohibits high ethanol fuels.

that’s because Subaru engines can barely stay alive under stock power

 

[DesertSweat]

Then I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.

Ethanol has less energy, so it gives you worse mileage in a hybrid. This is data from my C-Max. The middle data is 91E0, the left 93E10. At right is a reduction in tire pressure (long story). An EcoBoost might notice the octane, but the Hybrid will notice the energy content. Ethanol has 43% of gasoline's energy, in addition to its reliability issues.

Note I am not claiming this is a way to save money. E0 is not priced for the price conscious.

Remember, your engine is no longer connected to the road, so operating RPM changes very little, until you move your right foot. Your experience with conventional drivetrains won't apply when a power-split device is involved.

check where the thread is at. Ecoboost. Next, show me where we are looking at mileage. I said power. Alcohol is better at making it.

 

[MaverickAngler]

I don’t know about other manufacturers, but Subaru absolutely prohibits high ethanol fuels.

That’s probably true but it’s my understanding all of Tuesday seals, fuel lines etc are supposed to support at least e85
Like I said I’ve been out of the game for a while so things may have changed since e85/flex fuel didn’t take Off like they were trying for

 

[DesertSweat]

That’s probably true but it’s my understanding all of Tuesday seals, fuel lines etc are supposed to support at least e85
Like I said I’ve been out of the game for a while so things may have changed since e85/flex fuel didn’t take Off like they were trying for

all modern cars, their seals and lines can tolerate e85. Only reason why manufacturers “prohibit” is because they don’t want you tuning (accessing fueling and other tables in the ecu) your car and potentially get fraudulent warranty claims.
Understandable, but some people don’t care about that.

 

[SgtLip]

Taken from Page 172 of the Owners Manual that was posted today on this forum:

Do not use:

• Diesel fuel.
• Fuels containing kerosene or paraffin.
• Fuel containing more than 15% ethanol or E85 fuel.
• Fuels containing methanol.
• Fuels containing metallic-based additives, including manganese-based compounds.
• Fuels containing the octane booster additive, methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
• Leaded fuel, using leaded fuel is prohibited by law.
  The use of fuels with metallic compounds such as methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, which is a manganese-based fuel additive, will impair engine performance and affect the emission control system.

 

[DesertSweat]

Taken from Page 172 of the Owners Manual that was posted today on this forum:

Do not use:

• Diesel fuel.
• Fuels containing kerosene or paraffin.
• Fuel containing more than 15% ethanol or E85 fuel.
• Fuels containing methanol.
• Fuels containing metallic-based additives, including manganese-based compounds.
• Fuels containing the octane booster additive, methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
• Leaded fuel, using leaded fuel is prohibited by law.
  The use of fuels with metallic compounds such as methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, which is a manganese-based fuel additive, will impair engine performance and affect the emission control system.

manufacturers state you shouldn’t do a lot of things….

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