Santa Cruz's Are Starting to Arrive

[vezpa]

When do you think Ford dealers will have a Maverick in the show room?

My dealer called me today and said they will have one at their dealership this Friday and welcomed me to come take a look.

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[TruckGuySC]

So all non FX4 Mavericks are not trucks because they don't have an off-road package? I doubt the FX4 package will be on more than 25% of Mavericks. I have a Ram 1500 which is certainly a truck, but its 2WD and hasn't seen more than wet grass and some mudded out dirt roads after one of Houston's seemingly endless flooding episodes.

I plan on enjoy Starbucks and pup cups with my hybrid Maverick, and just plan to use the bed for hauling dirty/wet/smelly/tall things that might not otherwise do well in a crossover trunk area.

That’s not the intent of what I wrote. I wrote that the two vehicles are not equivalent bc Ford is marketing and selling the Mav as a truck with options that trucks have, that are not even available on the SC.

The FX4 package being one of them. The fact that the bed does not have a weight limit of only 660 lb. being another.

Ford is even stamping the fact it’s a truck on the dash!

 

[JASmith]

I wrote that the two vehicles are not equivalent bc Ford is marketing and selling the Mav as a truck with options that trucks have, that are not even available on the SC.

Sure, but you were responding to my post here pointing out that one being called a "truck" and the other a "sport adventure vehicle" (made up term) is merely the marketing team playing with words, and functionality the two platforms are fairly similar in capabilities being crossover based platforms with a bit shorter than regular beds with 190ish HP base engines and turbo options. I mean, if Ford marketing team had used the Australian slang and called it a "ute", it wouldn't really change anything about the Maverick and what it can or can't do.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." - William Shakespeare, April 1610, Royal Forum to Debate Renaming "Rose" to "Fart Blossom"

 

[Old Ranchero]

I didn't know the 2.0 was in the newer edge models. That is a great comparison to go against for expectations! 21/28 and 23 combined. I suspect we could see 22-23/29-30 and 24-25 combined. The maverick is slightly less aerodynamic, but even in the AWD configurations the Maverick comes in almost 400lbs lighter!

yep. here's a more complete listing of all the cars sharing the 2nd generation 2.0L ecoboost motor. Has not been updated to include Maverick...


A redesigned 2.0 L EcoBoost four-cylinder was introduced with the second-generation Ford Edge, followed by the 2017 Ford Escape in spring 2016.[49] It features a higher compression ratio than its predecessor (10.1:1 vs 9.3:1) along with twin-scroll turbocharger and fuel and oil systems upgrades.[50] This new engine will deliver more low-end torque than its predecessor and all-wheel drive will be available in this configuration. It is also expected to tow 3,500 lb (1,600 kg) in the redesigned Edge and 2017 Escape.

Applications

• Approx. 245 hp (183 kW; 248 PS), 275 lb⋅ft (373 N⋅m)
  • 2015–2018 Ford Edge
  • 2015– Ford Everest
  • 2015– Zenos E10 S[51]
  • 2016– Ford Tourneo
  • 2016– Ford Escape / Ford Kuga
  • 2017–2020 Ford Fusion
  • 2021– Ford Bronco Sport
  • 2016– Lincoln MKZ
  • 2019 Lincoln MKC
• 250 hp (186 kW; 253 PS), 280 lb⋅ft (380 N⋅m)
  • 2019– Ford Edge
  • 2019– Lincoln Nautilus[52]
  • 2020– Lincoln Corsair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EcoBoost_engine

 

[Yardtruck]

I anticipate for the santa cruz the same success than the subaru baja...
Sorry I would not drive that...and subaru outback and forester is something I like a lot.
Well I guess this is why I am not on the santa cruz forum...

Years ago, I saw one of the first Bajas at a mall. Sales lady was all excited. I bent my head way over to get in, looked around and said "it won't sell-too much car not enough truck."

 

[TruckGuySC]

Sure, but you were responding to my post here pointing out that one being called a "truck" and the other a "sport adventure vehicle" (made up term) is merely the marketing team playing with words, and functionality the two platforms are fairly similar in capabilities being crossover based platforms with a bit shorter than regular beds with 190ish HP base engines and turbo options. I mean, if Ford marketing team had used the Australian slang and called it a "ute", it wouldn't really change anything about the Maverick and what it can or can't do.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." - William Shakespeare, April 1610, Royal Forum to Debate Renaming "Rose" to "Fart Blossom"

If what you say is true and they’re essentially the same, then please show me the off-road package for the SC on the Hyundai website.
The two vehicles are quite different.

“We interrupt this program to annoy you and make things generally more irritating.” – Monty Python

 

[JASmith]

If what you say is true and they’re essentially the same, then please show me the off-road package for the SC on the Hyundai website. The two vehicles are quite different.

You seem stuck on the idea that a pickup truck isn't a pickup truck unless it is offroad capable. If that is your definition, then certainly the SC is not a pickup, nor is a SVT Lightning or Ram SRT10 since neither are made to go offroad.

If curious about the ways the Maverick and Santa Cruz are similar and worth cross-shopping, any of these aspects below could relate to either vehicle:

1. Steel unibody chassis
2. Crossover based two row 5-seater platform
3. Available 8-speed automatic
4. 8.6" of ground clearance
5. Available 18" wheels
6. FWD biased available on-demand mechanical AWD
7. Base Engine ~190hp
8. Turbocharged upgrade engine
9. Factory tow hitch available w/ prewired 7-pin
10. Short bed w/ available bed extender and cubby storage
11. Unpainted rear bumper with step
12. ~40' turn diameter
13. Available MacPherson strut front and independent multi-link rear suspension
14. 8-inch color touchscreen display w/ Android-Auto / Apple-Carplay
15. Available 8-way power driver's seat

Superimposed side-profile to scale:

Are they identical? Of course not, but they are very much direct competitors with the Santa Cruz being slightly shorter but also slightly wider, with similar step in heights and seating position. That's why I'm still on the fence on whether I want a sleeper 1) Carbonized Gray Maverick XL FWD Hybrid or loud 2) Cyber Orange Maverick XLT FWD Hybrid or sporty 3) Hampton Gray Santa Cruz AWD SEL Premium (~275hp one). None would be taken offroad, but the 8"+ of ground clearance is nice for the light flooding we seem to always get in Houston.

 

[TruckGuySC]

You seem stuck on the idea that a pickup truck isn't a pickup truck unless it is offroad capable. If that is your definition, then certainly the SC is not a pickup, nor is a SVT Lightning or Ram SRT10 since neither are made to go offroad.

If curious about the ways the Maverick and Santa Cruz are similar and worth cross-shopping, any of these aspects below could relate to either vehicle:

1. Steel unibody chassis
2. Crossover based two row 5-seater platform
3. Available 8-speed automatic
4. 8.6" of ground clearance
5. Available 18" wheels
6. FWD biased available on-demand mechanical AWD
7. Base Engine ~190hp
8. Turbocharged upgrade engine
9. Factory tow hitch available w/ prewired 7-pin
10. Short bed w/ available bed extender and cubby storage
11. Unpainted rear bumper with step
12. ~40' turn diameter
13. Available MacPherson strut front and independent multi-link rear suspension
14. 8-inch color touchscreen display w/ Android-Auto / Apple-Carplay
15. Available 8-way power driver's seat

Superimposed side-profile to scale:

Are they identical? Of course not, but they are very much direct competitors with the Santa Cruz being slightly shorter but also slightly wider, with similar step in heights and seating position. That's why I'm still on the fence on whether I want a sleeper 1) Carbonized Gray Maverick XL FWD Hybrid or loud 2) Cyber Orange Maverick XLT FWD Hybrid or sporty 3) Hampton Gray Santa Cruz AWD SEL Premium (~275hp one). None would be taken offroad, but the 8"+ of ground clearance is nice for the light flooding we seem to always get in Houston.

Not what I’m saying at all. I consider the SC to be like a smaller Honda Ridgeline (which I own) with its SUV front end (the RL’s recently changed by Honda) and SUV interior.

I take the manufacturers at their word. Hyundai states that the SC is not a truck, while Ford states that the Mav is a truck and built as tough as their other trucks. Heck, they even stamp “Built Ford Tough” on the side of the dash to emphasize it!

What I am pointing out is that the Maverick has normal, expected truck options available, while the SC does not. The FX-4 off-road package being a good example..

Ford also allows full payload in the bed, while the SC has a payload limit in the bed of only 660 lb.

Ford also put the same cleats and d-rings as the F-150 in the bed rated at up to 1200 lb. I’m sure the cleats, etc. in the bed of the SC are only rated at about 350 lb. like my
Ridgeline.

unibody ≠ unibody. Ford did the heavy lifting by ruggedizing their platform for off-road duty as demonstrated by the Bronco Sport Badlands. Again, the SC and RL do not have such a ruggedized unibody platform.

Also, Ford has an even more off-road capable Mav in the works under the Timberline or Tremor name. Again, trim levels you would expect in a truck. Just look at offerings from GM, Toyota, Nissan, etc.

 

[JASmith]

I take the manufacturers at their word. Hyundai states that the SC is not a truck, while Ford states that the Mav is a truck and built as tough as their other trucks. Heck, they even stamp “Built Ford Tough” on the side of the dash to emphasize it!

I understand, my argument is that you're a victim of marketing, not actual major differences in the hardware. Like stamping a piece of plastic with a slogan "Built Ford Tough" doesn't really change anything but the image they are trying to project.

Speaking of slogans, IMO the reason for not calling the Santa Cruz a "pickup" is because they are trying to capture part of the market that rejects traditionalist pickup culture, hence why it uses a more left-wing appropriate "Made in California" logo stamped into the brake lights like you'd see on an apple product, instead of "Made in America" logo perhaps w/ an American flag that would appeal more to right-wing nationalistic types. Their commercials unlike say a Ram 1500 one instead of showing some middle-aged farmer putting the vehicle to work shows a young hipster girl band loading up their gear in the back of what looks like some San Francisco venue.

unibody ≠ unibody. Ford did the heavy lifting by ruggedizing their platform for off-road duty as demonstrated by the Bronco Sport Badlands. Again, the SC and RL do not have such a ruggedized unibody platform.

The whole reason that it took 6 years for the Santa Cruz to come to market after its initial concept car was that they determined the at the time new (now last gen) Tucson platform was not strong enough for truck duty. The new Tucson/Santa Cruz platform was thus designed from the ground up to be more heavy duty, and some of the components on the SC are from the larger Santa Fe.

Generally speaking, the main purpose of a pickup isn't its offroad worthiness (I'd argue most pickup sales are for on-road focused trims) but to tow and haul stuff, and the payload and tow rating of the SC are comparable to the Maverick, turbo vs turbo. On the base trims, the SC actually tows 1500lbs more. Here's a video showing the SC towing a boat and the AWD system handling a poorly maintained launch area, seems to do fine:

 

[TruckGuySC]

I understand, my argument is that you're a victim of marketing, not actual major differences in the hardware. Like stamping a piece of plastic with a slogan "Built Ford Tough" doesn't really change anything but the image they are trying to project.

Speaking of slogans, IMO the reason for not calling the Santa Cruz a "pickup" is because they are trying to capture part of the market that rejects traditionalist pickup culture, hence why it uses a more left-wing appropriate "Made in California" logo stamped into the brake lights like you'd see on an apple product, instead of "Made in America" logo perhaps w/ an American flag that would appeal more to right-wing nationalistic types. Their commercials unlike say a Ram 1500 one instead of showing some middle-aged farmer putting the vehicle to work shows a young hipster girl band loading up their gear in the back of what looks like some San Francisco venue.

The whole reason that it took 6 years for the Santa Cruz to come to market after its initial concept car was that they determined the at the time new (now last gen) Tucson platform was not strong enough for truck duty. The new Tucson/Santa Cruz platform was thus designed from the ground up to be more heavy duty, and some of the components on the SC are from the larger Santa Fe.

Generally speaking, the main purpose of a pickup isn't its offroad worthiness (I'd argue most pickup sales are for on-road focused trims) but to tow and haul stuff, and the payload and tow rating of the SC are comparable to the Maverick, turbo vs turbo. On the base trims, the SC actually tows 1500lbs more. Here's a video showing the SC towing a boat and the AWD system handling a poorly maintained launch area, seems to do fine:

The SC = pint-sized Ridgeline. End of story. And RL sales speak for themselves.

It will be interesting to see the % of Mavs ordered w the FX4 package - that is the percentage of buyers SC has chosen to reject. And if the SC platform were off-road capable, why wouldn’t they want to pick up additional marketshare rather than leaving it on the table?

You also didn’t address the lacking numbers of the SC bed capacity, clamp strength, etc.

So I’m hardly being sold by marketing.

To say the base SC tows 1500 lb. more than the base Mav (when there’s no hybrid option even available w the SC) is dubious at best. Like comparing apples and oranges. I’ll grant you that the SC in it fully outfitted form bests the Mav by 1,000 lb. towing, but has anyone seen the final SAE tow ratings? The Mavs are final, but the numbers on the Hyundai side have been in flux.

As far as the SC appealing to soy lattè-drinking, skinny jean-wearing types, I give you this (so I guess Hyundai messed up on
targeting too):

“2022 Ford Maverick Reservations Largely Coming From California”
https://fordauthority.com/2021/08/2022-ford-maverick-reservations-largely-coming-from-california/

 

[bombast]

I take the manufacturers at their word. Hyundai states that the SC is not a truck,...

I suspect that has more to do with the rest of their line-up, and their stated goal, than anything else. Hyundai doesn't have any trucks in production as far as I'm aware besides this, and their market is aimed squarely at 'weekend adventurers' that would otherwise be buying SUVs, of which Hyundai has many.

Ford is doing the same. They are, of course, the truck company, so when presented with the opportunity of producing a modern family/light-duty/fleet vehicle they draw up the most truck like thing they can and advertise it that way.

...while Ford states that the Mav is a truck and built as tough as their other trucks. Heck, they even stamp “Built Ford Tough” on the side of the dash to emphasize it!

Unless its bright yellow and says TONKA on it, I find any claims of toughness to be pure market posturing.

 

[kingranchero]

 

[TruckGuySC]

I suspect that has more to do with the rest of their line-up, and their stated goal, than anything else. Hyundai doesn't have any trucks in production as far as I'm aware besides this, and their market is aimed squarely at 'weekend adventurers' that would otherwise be buying SUVs, of which Hyundai has many.

Ford is doing the same. They are, of course, the truck company, so when presented with the opportunity of producing a modern family/light-duty/fleet vehicle they draw up the most truck like thing they can and advertise it that way.



Unless its bright yellow and says TONKA on it, I find any claims of toughness to be pure market posturing.

Then you’re saying that I should be able to drive the SC anywhere I can drive the Mav FX4 right?

I mean you said it was all “posturing”

 

[BDennis]

At first, I leaned towards the SCruz, being wary of the Mav's CVT.

Then like you, the hybrid MPG and the lower cost, along with understanding the CVT better, won me over to the Ford.

Originally a fan of the Scruz design, I now appreciate and prefer the truck like design of the Mav.

Looking at the above video, it looks kinda crowded inside, front and back.

Not a CVT, Maverick has an eCVT which does not have belts, but planetary gears. Big, big difference.

 

[pxpaulx]

I suspect that has more to do with the rest of their line-up, and their stated goal, than anything else. Hyundai doesn't have any trucks in production as far as I'm aware besides this, and their market is aimed squarely at 'weekend adventurers' that would otherwise be buying SUVs, of which Hyundai has many.

Ford is doing the same. They are, of course, the truck company, so when presented with the opportunity of producing a modern family/light-duty/fleet vehicle they draw up the most truck like thing they can and advertise it that way.



Unless its bright yellow and says TONKA on it, I find any claims of toughness to be pure market posturing.

I'll give the Santa Cruz exterior a small acknowledgement to looking somewhat outdoorsy, but adventurous? Not so much. Haven't seen any sort of off-road-ish videos on YT either - the most off-road video is their own ad where someone drives it on a dirt road into the foothills of Santa Cruz - adventure maybe, but not really off the beaten path.

Then there is the interior. Which screams I don't know, latte and soccer practice? Nary an adventure to be found inside that cabin. I would say it looks good against a 10 year old Infiniti, and the top line trim does look like luxury, which is nice...but not adventurous. Everything below the leather interior (i.e. spend less than $40K) and it looks like utter garbage. Just a trash boring interior. They had a concept, call it adventurous, and make it look like anything else from their line-up in the last decade on the inside. Sorry, whoops, your bad!

Then you have the Maverick - looks good (great to me!), nothing to complain about - might not turn every head, but turning heads can be both good and bad! The interior? Looks like they hit their target market 100% - interesting, rugged, functional - that plays to everyone. Yeah its unique, and the Lariat interior is a little more of a risk (don't like it myself), but there is enough contrast between all 3 interiors that you can love one, hate the other, and Ford still comes out with a happy buyer.

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