Poll: Who here is interested in Buying the New Ford EV Midsize Pickup in 2027

[Glen Baker LLC]

Well that is fair - you mentioned a 450 mile road trip so that was my baseline. If only doing local then yes PHEV with 40-45 miles of range makes sense especially with a good electrical rate.

Just on a weekend one overnight stay last Sep. My dog and I did almost 700 miles.
This long 4th of July weekend my wife and I drove around northern Nevada 1100 miles in total. Without side trips.
Salt lake is 7 hours away. Reno likewise 7-8 hours. It can take me 6 hours to drive to Phoenix because I like to explore. The Volts definitely lacked the clearance for some of roads I drove them on.
Plugging in the Chevy Volt at home,
I noticed around a $25-$30 difference in my electric bill, maybe.

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[Escapologist]

The Volts definitely lacked the clearance for some of roads I drove them on.

Well that's exactly how the Jeep guys do it, spend $10,000 on upgrades and then go out to find somewhere they can get stuck now.

.... and then be all delighted like "Woohoo, I broke it 200ft further up the trail than last year."

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

.

Well that's exactly how the Jeep guys do it, spend $10,000 on upgrades and then go out to find somewhere they can get stuck now.

.... and then be all delighted like "Woohoo, I broke it 200ft further up the trail than last year."

First thing that always got tore off was that flexible rubber strip on the bottom of the valance.

 

[Escapologist]

.

First thing that always got tore off was that flexible rubber strip on the bottom of the valance.

Figures...

I got a steal of a deal a few years back on some high high tech teflon coated and reinforced tape, with super duper adhesive. I always planned to sheath/shield the bottom of the valance on any "worth it" vehicle with it, that I might go off pavement. The theory being that if it slides super well it won't drag and pull off or get ground down. The only problem is, I can't remember the particular "safe place" I put it in and buggered if I am going to buy a replacement roll at $500 or whatever the official price was.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Hum, really, 25 years ago ??? I wouldn't argue the point about its getting better, but, Just a quick google search shows the information below just from the first 3-4 links/article off the top that I clicked on, Hence my previous statement of "California's grid issues which are not necessarily isolated or rare" that you didn't seem to care for. Part of my point in that was multiplying that across the whole US. But whatever opinions you have are fine with me, we all have one!

California has experienced several significant power outages in its history, including the massive Southwest Blackout of 2011, which impacted millions. These outages, often triggered by extreme weather and grid vulnerabilities, highlight the state's reliance on power imports and the challenges of maintaining a stable energy supply.​

​

California has also experienced numerous other outages due to weather events like wildfires, storms, and extreme temperatures. In 2020, rolling blackouts occurred during a heatwave due to insufficient energy supplies​

The Risk of Power Outages Is Growing
Power outages are on the rise in California. There were 25,281 blackout events in 2019, a 23% increase from 20,598 in 2018. The number of utility customers affected jumped to 28.4 million in 2019, up 50% from 19 million in 2018.​

The "California power company scandal" most notably refers to the California electricity crisis of 2000 - 2001. This crisis involved market manipulation, price gouging, and rolling blackouts due to a combination of factors including deregulation, increased demand, and drought-induced supply shortages​

The last one. Yes. Was about 25 years ago.

The most recent ones, severe weather related, yes. EV charging related, no.

P.S. during a power outage, you can't pump gas. Pretty rare for a station to have generator backup, because outages are rare and short lived (hours) usually.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

The 2.5L in the Maverick - which is significantly larger than the ICE in your Volt and placed in a significantly less aero platform - can only pull 27mpg at best when on.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I have a FWD but get 40+ MPG continuously all day long at highway speeds (65-68 mph) in mild weather.

Did you get a lemon? Maybe have yours checked out.

 

[710-oil-614]

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I have a FWD but get 40+ MPG continuously all day long at highway speeds (65-68 mph) in mild weather.

Did you get a lemon? Maybe have yours checked out.

LOL. Okay.

I’ll believe you when I see Feully or hand calculated numbers from a trip, even 1 not routinely.

 

[sme1974]

Not interested in a full EV. But a PHEV with a 30+ electric range, YES.

Ditto

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

LOL. Okay.

I’ll believe you when I see Feully or hand calculated numbers from a trip, even 1 not routinely.

San Diego to San Fransisco on one tank in one day. Just stopped for restrooms and food. Didn't need gas the whole way.

Hills in the middle. But basically sea level to sea level. No net difference.

I have AFE adjust set to 950/1000.
What you see is accurate to +/- one MPG.

Just for you here's the drive today.
About 1.1 mile of residential followed by half an hour of freeway at 65 MPH cruise control. No meaningful elevation change. Coastal city to coastal city.

Every day of the week.
All week long.
If you're getting 27, why do you think that is?

 

[Cherokee]

Only way I’d buy even a hybrid is it would have to be a plug in that could give me real useable time and speed on electric only.
I’d demand manual control of the system.

I know that’s not gonna happen.

Long time ago a guy bought an electric fork lift motor and controller.
He stripped down a little Chevy pick up truck. An S-10 I think it was.
He beefed up the suspension and had 14 105 amp hour deep cycle lead acids under the flip up bed. He had an on board 100 ft extension cord and two chargers to charge with.
He ran it as a parts delivery vehicle.
Range 85 miles,
It would do 65 mph and with a lunch break partial charge up he could use it locally all day.
He built this on his own. hybrids and EV’s don’t need to be so complex or expensive especially with lipo battery tech.

 

[colinl]

Electric does not make any sense for my lifestyle because I'm frequently doing long drives in remote areas.

The only possible way would be as an infrequently-used 3rd vehicle, and since I have a 2 car garage that means something is getting parked outside which I can do but prefer to keep vehicles in a garage. However, if I decided to get a 3rd vehicle it would be for fun, so we're talking Mustang GT350R or something cool like that.

I don't know how you ever make that math work to buy another vehicle, pay insurance and taxes, charging equipment in your garage... and then think you're 'saving' money even if electricity is cheap where & when you charge it.

 

[jerrisn]

Well, on my case I want a full EV, I barely drive, don't need more than 250-300 miles range just in case, my regular drive is less than 2-8 miles round trip, no range anxiety if I can get 250 miles out of it, I charge home using my solar panels, also love the convenience of powering my home using the truck just in case.

As long I can get a 8-10 year warranty + is equally or more comfy than my maverick, and the price is right I'm pretty much sold. But just in case like others said I gonna wait a bit to se how reliable is the vehicle.

In my opinion 35-45k on something like a lariat model I think is a good price, depending on what it offers.

Something to consider if you drive very little. EV batteries degrade gradually, even with minimal use, due to calendar aging (chemical degradation over time). If you drive very little, the battery's capacity can diminish before you fully utilize it, reducing the vehicle's value and range. If you have one, I would be driving it regularly.

 

[huunvubu]

Something to consider if you drive very little. EV batteries degrade gradually, even with minimal use, due to calendar aging (chemical degradation over time). If you drive very little, the battery's capacity can diminish before you fully utilize it, reducing the vehicle's value and range. If you have one, I would be driving it regularly.

You forgot this:

Yes, EV batteries degrade over time due to a process called calendar aging, even with minimal use. This is a natural chemical degradation process that occurs regardless of how often the battery is charged and discharged.

So it makes no difference if you drive it regularly or not.

I have a friend who kept his CFL (compact fluorescent) bulbs constantly on because he believes that turning them on and off would shorten their life. So he wasted energy constantly while they were always on defeating the purpose of an energy saving bulb.

I used the CFL's in our bathrooms and never kept them always on we just turned them on when needed. They lasted on average about 3 years which was way more than incandescent or halogen bulbs while saving energy over the time.

Your thought of "driving it regularly" or more than necessary seems to be more of the same: use more energy but doesn't stop the slow degradation which really isn't an issue as seen in the follow article.

How much do electric car batteries degrade?

Most electric cars still have more than 80% capacity after 200,000 miles


We’ve now had enough electric cars on the road - and for long enough - to have a good idea of how the battery holds up over time.

Here we’ll focus on a metric used to capture the battery’s “State of Health” (SoH). It’s what percentage of a battery’s initial capacity is still usable after a given number of miles or years.

Let’s start with the results of the huge Tesla cohort that we looked at above. In its 2023 Impact Report, Tesla reported that after 200,000 miles of use, the batteries in a Model 3 and Model Y had lost just 15% of their capacity, on average. For the Model S and X, it was just 12%.

That’s not bad, given that most cars are scrapped somewhere in the 150,000 to 200,000 miles range. At that point, a Tesla will have more than 80% of its initial capacity, and in some cases, even more. So people will probably give up their car, well, well before the battery gets close to becoming a burden.

What about other car models?

The very early Nissan LEAFs — one of the first electric cars to break through — did have real degradation problems, especially in hotter climates. They used a passive thermal management system — in other words, there was no active cooling of the battery — which led to faster degradation. Many of these batteries would need to be replaced.1

But the early Nissan LEAFs were a vital lesson. Most manufacturers do not experience the same issues today. Manufacturers such as Tesla, GM, Kia and Volkswagen using liquid cooling systems to prevent this.

A large study of 7,000 cars by AVILOO — some of which had done as much as 300,000 kilometres (almost 200,000 miles) — found that the majority still had more than 80% of battery capacity, even at these high-mileage levels.

In another study across 15,000 cars — which had collectively clocked up 250 million miles — just 1.5% had needed a battery replacement for any reason, so the share that needed one due to degradation was probably even lower.

I would expect that many cars with far more than 200,000 miles would still have a fairly healthy battery left. But not many cars get to this driving distance, and I’d be a bit cautious about survivorship bias if we had a very small sample size. This is also something to be aware of, even when talking about 200,000-mile vehicles, although here the sample sizes are not that small.

 

[huunvubu]

Ford is using a new type of battery in their new EV coming in 2027.

Lithium iron phosphate battery

The lithium iron phosphate battery (LiFePO4 battery) or LFP battery (lithium ferrophosphate) is a type of lithium-ion battery using lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) as the cathode material, and a graphitic carbon electrode with a metallic backing as the anode. Because of their low cost, high safety, low toxicity, long cycle life and other factors, LFP batteries are finding a number of roles in vehicle use, utility-scale stationary applications, and backup power.[7] LFP batteries are cobalt-free.[8] As of September 2022, LFP type battery market share for EVs reached 31%, and of that, 68% were from EV makers Tesla and BYD alone.[9] Chinese manufacturers currently hold a near-monopoly of LFP battery type production

One of the benefits is:

Better aging and cycle-life characteristics

LFP chemistry offers a considerably longer cycle life than other lithium-ion chemistries. Under most conditions it supports more than 3,000 cycles, and under optimal conditions it supports more than 10,000 cycles. NMC batteries support about 1,000 to 2,300 cycles, depending on conditions.[6]

LFP cells experience a slower rate of capacity loss (a.k.a. greater calendar-life) than lithium-ion battery chemistries such as cobalt (LiCoO2), manganese spinel (LiMn2O4), lithium-ion polymer batteries (LiPo battery) or lithium-ion batteries.[44]

 

[24hrsun]

Ford is using a new type of battery in their new EV coming in 2027.

Lithium iron phosphate battery



One of the benefits is:

Actually that is the marketing talking. LFP are actually old battery tech. Less energy density. They market that it doesn't degrade as badly as NMC and other lithium chemistries, but that is factually wrong. You can look up Dr Jeff Dahn and the research he has done in this space. What they have discovered is that when you 100% charge them they degrade just like NMC. Temp and high SOC degrade them just as badly. That is why quietly everyone who sells a LFP battery in EVs has changed the guidance to only top charge infrequently now.

The last thing I saw from Jeff he stated they had worked on a different chemistry that isn't as affected by degradation and that some manufacturers in China had already picked up that tech from them. He didn't mentioned names, but pretty sure he is talking about CATL. The Chinese appear to be iterating new generations of the battery tech very quickly and they have some extremely fast charging batteries and cars now in production there. We are really very far behind them at this time. Solid state will be ramping in 2030 from the sounds of it. We will see some solid state going into production in 2027 from the looks of it. We recently heard Ford is in a partnership with a company that is bringing solid state, but who knows what the actual production time frame will be. I think I heard 2030.

The problem with LFP is that the battery voltage stays flat. As it it does not appear to go down in some sort of predictable curve as the battery is used. It looks like it holds its charge until BOOM it isn't. The issue is that the battery management system(BMS) does not know the state of charge because of this flat charge behavior. So it has to guess what the actual SOC is. So periodically they tell you to 100% charge it so the BMS can recalibrate and determine the correct state. LFP really isn't a great tech for EVs. Good for stationary power solutions. The reason they are going with this is the cost is lowest with LFP at this time. So the only thing new might be that Ford is bringing that improved chemistry with this LFP. Too early to tell if the new chemistry really corrected the degradation issue. Also if you follow any of the Telsa guys with LFP's they are complaining about calendar dating and watching the battery degrade by just aging. It is higher than was was predicted to be the life span of these batteries. So hopefully this gets fixed in any new LFP's that ship.

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