2025 Maverick AWD Hybrid vs Ike (The world's toughest towing test) by TFL

[npaladin2000]

The point about the hybrid battery is valid. As long as you can use both power sources you get enough power and torque... But on an extended climb like the Ike it's going to run out. Important to keep in mind. Now on a more normal drive with uphills and downhills provides more opportunity to charge. But if you have to do long climbs while towing is important to know that eventually you'll have to work with the ICE only on the rest to the top. And maybe the hybrid isn't the best for that specific situation.

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[710-oil-614]

You are right on this point: the F-150 hybrid can tow a comparable load, with the same relative ease that the Maverick ecoboost can.

But that is completely untrue of the Maverick hybrid. With a comparable load, the hybrid struggles beyond its 100% power limit to be able to handle the load at speeds lower than the speed limit.

That was an acceptable characteristic in pre-fuel injection, smog restricted trucks in the 1970’s where it was common to pull mountain passes at 40 mph because the engine was underpowered.

But 50 years later, the technology has advanced and customers expect their vehicle to act like a modern vehicle, not a 50 year old vehicle.

Nope again both rated to tow 4K lbs and both can tow 4K lbs. No more. No less. They are equally rated.

 

[wax87]

It would have been interesting if they had active temperature monitors on the tranny, Hyb battery and trans axles why climbing up that hill.

 

[capecruiser]

I can say for sure that 5500 rpm for 8 minutes the cats would glow like headlights !

 

[rgmiller32]

Did not see anywhere in the video were they showed a tach reading. It would be nice if they hooked up a bidirectional scanner and show what it was at. Even on the early hybrids there is no tach. When the ICE kicks in it seems like it is running at a high rpm.

 

[Phimosis]

Nope again both rated to tow 4K lbs and both can tow 4K lbs. No more. No less. They are equally rated.

The only reason the tow rating is the same on the ecoboost and the hybrid is becuase of the unibody design, not becuase of the power train. And I'm not saying a unibody design is bad, it is simply that Ford didn't desing the rear section strong enough to tow more. As examples, the unibody Santa Cruz and Ridgeline have 5k towing capcity with nearly identical power outputs, 250 hp vs 280.

However, the hybrid, with 191 hp peak and 158 hp sustained, is no where near the same league as the ecoboost maverick, the Santa Cruz or the Ridgeline.

 

[Phimosis]

Did not see anywhere in the video were they showed a tach reading. It would be nice if they hooked up a bidirectional scanner and show what it was at. Even on the early hybrids there is no tach. When the ICE kicks in it seems like it is running at a high rpm.

They didn't show a tach reading, but they also did not need to. The 2.5 liter hybrid makes 158 hp @ 5,500 rpm. It is all but guaranteed that they have designed it to run at 5,500 rpm when you run it at wide open throttle.

Likewise, the "When the ICE kicks in it seems like it is running at a high rpm" is becuase it is an Atkinson cycle engine. The Atkinson cycle is more efficient than a conventional Otto cycle engine becuase it leaves the intake valves open longer and they do not close until the piston is part way up in the compression cycle. This makes it so that the compression cycle is shorter than the expansion cycle, which decreases pumping losses and increases overall efficiency of the engine. The downside is that Atkinson cycle engines do not make very much torque at low rpm.

The net effect is that if you couple an atkinson cycle engine to a conventional automatic transmission and open the throttle, hoping for more power, it just falls on its face.... until the transmission downshifts multiple times. In order to make more power, it needs to rev up into the range where Atkinson cycle engines are making good torque, which is 4,000 rpm and above. That is why they use the cvt, so that it can quickly change the gear ratio to get the engine into the 4,000+ range.

This graph shows the torque curve of an Atkinson cycle Toyota Prius engine, to illustrate the poor low rpm torque performance.

 

[710-oil-614]

The only reason the tow rating is the same on the ecoboost and the hybrid is becuase of the unibody design, not becuase of the power train. And I'm not saying a unibody design is bad, it is simply that Ford didn't desing the rear section strong enough to tow more. As examples, the unibody Santa Cruz and Ridgeline have 5k towing capcity with nearly identical power outputs, 250 hp vs 280.

However, the hybrid, with 191 hp peak and 158 hp sustained, is no where near the same league as the ecoboost maverick, the Santa Cruz or the Ridgeline.

So both the EB and Hybrid are rated to tow 4K then?

 

[Delphi]

Don't think I saw one post mentioning that TFL when they tested the EB Mav up the Ike was actually 500lb+ overweight while this test was supposed to be bang on 4k lb.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Meanwhile, the F-150 hybrid pulled the TFL Ike Gauntlet towing test at a speed limit restricted 62 mph at partial throttle while turning 2,400 rpm.

The hybrid Maverick could only muster 56 mph while turning at 5,500 rpm at wide open throttle for 8 minutes straight.

Please rationalize some more about how good of a tow vehicle the Maverick hybrid is.

It's a perfect tow vehicle if you tow 2 or 3 times a year. Which is what MOST owners normally want to do.

We know, you are not "normal".

 

[The Real Maverick]

The point about the hybrid battery is valid. As long as you can use both power sources you get enough power and torque... But on an extended climb like the Ike it's going to run out. Important to keep in mind. Now on a more normal drive with uphills and downhills provides more opportunity to charge. But if you have to do long climbs while towing is important to know that eventually you'll have to work with the ICE only on the rest to the top. And maybe the hybrid isn't the best for that specific situation.

I have towed big heavy stuff thousands of miles, in the western mountain states.

Wind drag, not so bad at 50 mph as 75 mph. 50 mph is MUCH SAFER in curvy mountains FOR EVERYONE so it is a no brainer to slow down in demanding conditions.

The 2022 hybrid will pull 4k just like the Ike Test at 50 mph. I've done it multiple times. It will get 20 mpg towing a camper like an R-pod at 62 mph / 100 kmh which is fast enough.

The combined torque of the 2022-2024 hybrid is DOCUMENTED at 245 lb-ft.

The traction motor can provide torque boost INDEFINITELY. It is almost always providing some torque to the wheels.

Maximum torque will come with battery aid, sure. But since engine torque is not ideal at high rpm, there is mechanical advantage to generating power in real time and sending that power directly to the traction motor which helps turn the wheels. This is "series hybrid mode" and the truck does this mode much of the time. Towing, or not, it will do series mode on hills.

 

[JohnCondren1933]

Saw a new Ridgeline advertised for $35,xxx....last remaining 2024.

As far as "spending $40k & being worried about fuel cost do not belong in the same sentence"
(ie you're buying a performance luxury vehicle at $40k)

Have you seen 2025 new vehicle prices?
base-model hybrids Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Ford Escape, Kia Sportage all start at $33-35k msrp

base-model Mav XL AWD hybrid $30,500ish msrp

2025 pretty much anything with heated seats, AWD & hybrid is hitting $40k especially with fees & destination.

 

[JohnCondren1933]

The great thing is you can have your Ecoboost if you want it, or you can have the Hybrid. Both now have the capability of 4k if you want it and AWD if you want it. The Hybrid transmission is a newer model than last years model. Last year was an HF45 and this year it is the HF55. Also I'm trying to confirm it but it looks like with the 4k tow pack and AWD you get a 3.81 ratio vs the 2.81 ratio. Both show in the specs. Which would make sense for the lower fuel economy.

Now for the charging of the hi voltage battery, any time the ICE is running it is putting out high voltage to charge the batteries and run the electric drive motors. It is also supplying power to the inverter to charge the 12 volt battery.

The new HF55 on 2025 Mav Hybrid AWD has been on the Lincoln Nautilus 2024 ironically with the Ecoboost 2.0, I guess verifying it could handle higher torque curve of EB before Mav towing 4k

I haven't seen Lincoln Nautilus hybrid problems in forums, I haven't seen barely anything Lincoln Nautilus maybe didnt sell alot, only saw something about fuel-injector failure but that's Ecoboost related.
Is Lincoln Nautilus using same Ecoboost 2.0 mounting & accessories as Mav EB? If so it sounds like Ford could offer Mav hybrid with EB 2.0 guess with mpg drop over 2.5L so would have us hypermillers unhappy?

Forced induction vs NA all else equal is gonna hit your MLS multilayer steel gasket failure faster.

 

[JohnCondren1933]

Yes, the Ford Maverick hybrid drivetrain is generally considered more complex than the EcoBoost engine, as the hybrid system incorporates both a gasoline engine and an electric motor, requiring additional components like a battery pack and power electronics to manage the energy flow, whereas the EcoBoost is a standard gasoline engine with a turbocharger, making it a simpler design.

Well, I’m glad I looked into that.
I knew I was right !

Not comparing apples to apples.
"Hybrid" difference from non-hybrid refers to the transaxle or transmission section of the powertrain. (mild hybrid is something else)

1) Engines: 2.0 Ecoboost is more complex than the hybrid 2.5L NA since no turbo or forced induction.

2) Transmission: A hybrid-electric transmission basic operation is simpler and with much fewer moving parts to wear than a hydraulic torque-converter transmission.
2 parallel shafts, a starter-generator shaft coupled to the ICE driveshaft, & a traction motor shaft coupled to the wheel CV-axles.
The 2 shafts are coupled to each other through the inverter: generator shaft generates current to the inverter,
the inverter steps voltage output frequency up & down for speed changes, & current up & down for torque changes.
That's it!

Hybrid transmission has no hydraulic torque-converter coupling motor to transmission with hydraulic seals to leak from wear, no 8 sets of clutch-plates to wear out over time, only 1 planetary-gear set in hybrid vs 8 planetary gear sets in the ZF torque-converter transaxle, each with electro-hydraulic actuators to engage each gear.
The only mechanical wear parts in the hybrid transmission are the bearings on each shaft end.

Hybrid-electric could technically run without a Traction-battery, traction battery allows the ICE to run at constant rpm vs accel decel for fuel efficiency, when higher than power-demands the inverter gates the excess generated current to charge the traction battery. When acceleration is later needed the inverter can pull from the generator & the traction battery for increased power over just the generator.

Regenerative braking works similar, inverter connects traction motor to a charging circuit on battery which bogs the motor down & the motor becomes a generator (regen braking control is quite involved)

So Maverick Hybrid ICE engine is simpler that EB,
Maverick Hybrid electric generator-motor transmission is definitely more complex for car guys to understand the operation of vs torque-converter transmission, but the hybrid drive is much fewer moving parts & significantly easier to rebuild a hybrid over a torque-converter transaxle - 6 bearings & an electric coolant pump.

 

[710-oil-614]

Not comparing apples to apples.
"Hybrid" difference from non-hybrid refers to the transaxle or transmission section of the powertrain. (mild hybrid is something else)

1) Engines: 2.0 Ecoboost is more complex than the hybrid 2.5L NA since no turbo or forced induction.

2) Transmission: A hybrid-electric transmission basic operation is simpler and with much fewer moving parts to wear than a hydraulic torque-converter transmission.
2 parallel shafts, a starter-generator shaft coupled to the ICE driveshaft, & a traction motor shaft coupled to the wheel CV-axles.
The 2 shafts are coupled to each other through the inverter: generator shaft generates current to the inverter,
the inverter steps voltage output frequency up & down for speed changes, & current up & down for torque changes.
That's it!

Hybrid transmission has no hydraulic torque-converter coupling motor to transmission with hydraulic seals to leak from wear, no 8 sets of clutch-plates to wear out over time, only 1 planetary-gear set in hybrid vs 8 planetary gear sets in the ZF torque-converter transaxle, each with electro-hydraulic actuators to engage each gear.
The only mechanical wear parts in the hybrid transmission are the bearings on each shaft end.

Hybrid-electric could technically run without a Traction-battery, traction battery allows the ICE to run at constant rpm vs accel decel for fuel efficiency, when higher than power-demands the inverter gates the excess generated current to charge the traction battery. When acceleration is later needed the inverter can pull from the generator & the traction battery for increased power over just the generator.

Regenerative braking works similar, inverter connects traction motor to a charging circuit on battery which bogs the motor down & the motor becomes a generator (regen braking control is quite involved)

So Maverick Hybrid ICE engine is simpler that EB,
Maverick Hybrid electric generator-motor transmission is definitely more complex for car guys to understand the operation of vs torque-converter transmission, but the hybrid drive is much fewer moving parts & significantly easier to rebuild a hybrid over a torque-converter transaxle - 6 bearings & an electric coolant pump.

We’ve been telling @Cherokee this for a bit now!

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