Signal processor for adding amplifier to base sound system

[Dodeboost]

1. You never needed a LOC as your amp accepts high level inputs, LOC can introduce noise.
2. If you have noise it is generally a faulty ground
3. Your amp does not have signal sensing, so you they have wired in a remote wire somewhere.
4. A DSP is not going to stop noise
5. A DSP is a great tuning tool but it is not as easy as I will buy one put it in and change the sound. You need to know how to tune with that DSP, not as simple as it may sound. To do a proper tune you need more than just a phone RTA and a tape measure. Tools for tuning include but not limited to RTA, REW and a calibrated mic or something like a JL max.
6. Generally running speaker wire, power/ground and signal wire together will not induce noise with modern install components now days. However it could but is unlikely.

With your limited audio install knowledge trouble shooting may be difficult.

You remove the LOC and wire in RCA ends directly to the speaker wires and take the LOC out of the chain, make sure to flip the switch on your amp to BAL (balance) for input per Phoenix Gold. I used the same ground location as you and have no noise, but I am high level input directly to amp.

Other have provided some good info for trouble shooting as also.

Good Luck.

Huh, interesting. I wonder why they used LOC’s then. I’m looking at the amp manual and see that it does in fact accept high level inputs. I don’t expect a dsp to solve my alternator noise issue, but based on my limited knowledge I thought it would help the clarity of music. Pretty much every system I’ve seen on these use a dsp, dsp amp, or at least a summing loc like an audio control lci to clean up the signal from the head unit. I definitely don’t have the knowledge or tools to properly set up and tune a true dsp, which is why I’m looking at something like the kicker Keyloc since it tunes itself. I’m now working with another installer, so I’ll pass this info along. Hopefully getting rid of the loc’s helps clear up the noise. Thank you!

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[Bsoute00]

Ok all the Keyloc does is clean up the signal coming from the factory HU there is no external DSP software to tune it with.

JL offers the Fix 82 and Fix 86 that clean up the audio signal from your factory hu like the Keyloc but that offer some additional flexibility and tuning via the TUN software you run on you computer.

Brands that also might offer what you are after, they all offer OEM integration with different levels of DSP/Tuning fuctions:
JL Audio
ARC Audio
Zapco Audio
Audison Audio
Hertz Audio
Mosconi Audio
Rockford Fosgate

 

[All4spl]

The quality of line out converter has a lot to play in this as well, the ones used by the shop appear to be very basic. Something from Audio control like an LC6i would be miles better, but again if there is a grounding issue changing loc's isn't necessarily going to fix the issue.

I am personally using a LC2i from audio control to a Digital Designs DSI-3, and while it's true you do need a TON of real equipment to tune a DSP, what else is true is that this is YOUR audio system. Let your ears tell you what sounds best when it comes to tuning.

 

[Dodeboost]

Ok all the Keyloc does is clean up the signal coming from the factory HU there is no external DSP software to tune it with.

JL offers the Fix 82 and Fix 86 that clean up the audio signal from your factory hu like the Keyloc but that offer some additional flexibility and tuning via the TUN software you run on you computer.

Brands that also might offer what you are after, they all offer OEM integration with different levels of DSP/Tuning fuctions:
JL Audio
ARC Audio
Zapco Audio
Audison Audio
Hertz Audio
Mosconi Audio
Rockford Fosgate

The quality of line out converter has a lot to play in this as well, the ones used by the shop appear to be very basic. Something from Audio control like an LC6i would be miles better, but again if there is a grounding issue changing loc's isn't necessarily going to fix the issue.

I am personally using a LC2i from audio control to a Digital Designs DSI-3, and while it's true you do need a TON of real equipment to tune a DSP, what else is true is that this is YOUR audio system. Let your ears tell you what sounds best when it comes to tuning.

I don’t think I need a full blown dsp, cleaning up the factory signal is all I’m after. For reference, my dads truck is a 06 dodge with the factory infinity system and a pioneer head unit. It’s noticeably cleaner and well balanced compared to my maverick. If I could get it to sound like that, I’d be happy. Maybe I’ll get a true dsp later but I’m hoping a better loc like the audio control, or a Keyloc or jl fix will do in the mean time. Thanks for the advice guys

 

[Dodeboost]

Finally got my mav back from my new installer. Few things we’re going to do. Line out converters will be replaced with something better. RCA’s are low quality so those will be replaced as well. Amp ground wire is too close to RCA’s which could be introducing noise to the system, so that will be relocated. Turn on signal wire for the amp is run with the speaker wires so that will be relocated as well, and re wired to turn on and off with the key. Once I decide what loc/signal processor to use I’ll take it back to him and have all this done. He also made some adjustments to the amp and it already sounds a little better. Front crossovers were too low, rears were too high. I thought I did my due diligence researching the shop but it seems like they just threw it together using cheap components and called it a day. Oh well, you live and learn.

 

[colinl]

Finally got my mav back from my new installer. Few things we’re going to do. Line out converters will be replaced with something better. RCA’s are low quality so those will be replaced as well. Amp ground wire is too close to RCA’s which could be introducing noise to the system, so that will be relocated. Turn on signal wire for the amp is run with the speaker wires so that will be relocated as well, and re wired to turn on and off with the key. Once I decide what loc/signal processor to use I’ll take it back to him and have all this done. He also made some adjustments to the amp and it already sounds a little better. Front crossovers were too low, rears were too high. I thought I did my due diligence researching the shop but it seems like they just threw it together using cheap components and called it a day. Oh well, you live and learn.

what did the new installer think about your amp?

I would be concerned that the changes he's proposing don't rule out the possibility that the amp itself is the cause of the noise. it could've overheated or just been poorly made. it's not that expensive big name brands are immune to those kinds of issues, but I would definitely expect more issues of that nature with cheaper products. (I'm intentionally and carefully avoiding calling your amp junk. I don't think that at all, I would question the amp itself in any scenario.)

it would be worth it to me for the installer to use one of his amps briefly, and change nothing else, and see if the issue is gone. I would expect an hourly labor charge for that. If his amp does remove the noise then you decide what kind of amp you want next, warranty this one and sell the replacement when you get it. Imo.

 

[Dodeboost]

what did the new installer think about your amp?

I would be concerned that the changes he's proposing don't rule out the possibility that the amp itself is the cause of the noise. it could've overheated or just been poorly made. it's not that expensive big name brands are immune to those kinds of issues, but I would definitely expect more issues of that nature with cheaper products. (I'm intentionally and carefully avoiding calling your amp junk. I don't think that at all, I would question the amp itself in any scenario.)

it would be worth it to me for the installer to use one of his amps briefly, and change nothing else, and see if the issue is gone. I would expect an hourly labor charge for that. If his amp does remove the noise then you decide what kind of amp you want next, warranty this one and sell the replacement when you get it. Imo.

He took the amp apart and inspected it. He said it looks like a good amp and didn’t think it was the issue. He thought the cheap loc, cheap RCA’s, and proximity of the ground cable to the RCA’s was the cause of noise. The amp is grounded to the factory ground location behind the back seat on the passenger side where something else is already grounded. He thinks this could be introducing noise as you suggested before. In any case, he said the RCA’s and loc’s need to go.

 

[Dodeboost]

Updating this thread for anyone else who may be dealing with something similar. I bought a audio control lc6i. I installed the lc6i and replaced the junk RCA’s with crutchfield reference 4 channel RCA cables. I also got rid of the signal sense turn on and used a fuse tap on fuse 3 to turn on the amp and lc6i. Took it back to my new installer and he tuned the system and relocated the amp ground to a mounting bolt for the jack behind the back seat. Alt noise is gone and the system sounds great. Big difference from when I initially got it back from the shop. The amp also seems to run cooler than it did before. We’re talking about replacing the alpine type s component set with something better, but for now I’m very pleased with it. Thanks to everyone on this forum for your advice on this, it’s much appreciated!

 

[colinl]

Updating this thread for anyone else who may be dealing with something similar. I bought a audio control lc6i. I installed the lc6i and replaced the junk RCA’s with crutchfield reference 4 channel RCA cables. I also got rid of the signal sense turn on and used a fuse tap on fuse 3 to turn on the amp and lc6i. Took it back to my new installer and he tuned the system and relocated the amp ground to a mounting bolt for the jack behind the back seat. Alt noise is gone and the system sounds great. Big difference from when I initially got it back from the shop. The amp also seems to run cooler than it did before. We’re talking about replacing the alpine type s component set with something better, but for now I’m very pleased with it. Thanks to everyone on this forum for your advice on this, it’s much appreciated!

congrats on the updates and I'm glad it sounds better! probably most the fix was the amp ground like I mentioned way back in my first reply, but everything else helps build a better system.

regarding swapping the alpine s series I would definitely audition replacements before experimenting. is there anything in particular you don't like? have silk dome tweeters so they shouldn't be harsh if your gain and tone controls are set properly. want more control it might actually be time for a dsp.

 

[Dodeboost]

congrats on the updates and I'm glad it sounds better! probably most the fix was the amp ground like I mentioned way back in my first reply, but everything else helps build a better system.

regarding swapping the alpine s series I would definitely audition replacements before experimenting. is there anything in particular you don't like? have silk dome tweeters so they shouldn't be harsh if your gain and tone controls are set properly. want more control it might actually be time for a dsp.

Overall I’m pretty happy with how it sounds, but when I isolate the front stage by turning the sub down and fading to the front, it sounds a bit muffled. The harshness from the tweeters is pretty much gone since my new guy adjusted gains and high pass/low pass on the amp , mid bass is decent. I do have cld and melamine foam on the entire outer skin of the door. As well as cld on the inner door panel and black panel. I went with the Amazon cld as you suggested in my other thread, so thanks for that. Definitely saved some $ there. Installer said I could get better sound out of it with better speakers. Yes I definitely want to listen to a few different ones before I buy anything else.

As far as dsp, I may go down that rabbit hole eventally as I can’t leave anything alone, and I know it’ll be better. Hoping kicker makes a 5 channel key amp at some point.

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