Needs to be said.

[cj99x]

The primary difference is that automobile dealerships (and their auto dealer associations) are THE single largest donors to state and local governments, which pass "protectionist" laws forcing the manufacturers to ONLY sell through dealers. In Texas, for instance, auto dealer associations and auto dealers contributed almost 33% of the funds donated to state-level offices, according to a report I saw from one of the campaign watchdog organizations. And that same report showed that they donate basically equal amounts to both parties. They don't care what party you belong to, as long as you remember who helped pay for your campaign...

Best thing that could happen is if the FTC acted like the EPA and decided the automobile was an appliance once it goes EV. Then dealers would be obsolete and you could go to Home Depot to pick up your new appliance LOL. But you are correct the dealer associations are the ones running the scams over the consumers and the politicians are the ones getting the deals and gray money. These "salesman" today have no selling skills they are just mere street reps for the families.

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[JokingJ]

never referred to any of you as anything other than flippers / scalpers and didn't make it personal. enjoy the fine work of extracting the most csh you can from others for personal transportation while it last. in the end, it adds no value (other than to your own short term cash flow) and is frustrating to those of us still trying to acquire this economy truck at a reasonable price without destroying it's value proposition. i don't relish handing any of you $5k or $10k extra for doing almost absolutely nothing, contributing nothing.

Didn't mention it myself, but you're absolutely right that it's essentially a question of principle and personal ethics -- i.e. when you get lucky, do you pass on the good fortune, or do you use it to further indulge your own avarice?

Some people can and do (obviously, see above) revel in the idea that they could extract value out of anything and anyone, and furthermore feel entitled to do so without the rest of the world calling them "scumbag" (why else post an in-support-of-scalpers thread justifying your almost universally loathed stance?). This is America, after all, and we're capitalists. Pay no mind that pure unadulterated capitalism didn't win WWII, nor did it build the Hoover Dam, nor did it build all the roads everyone here is so eager to drive a new Ford on. Just stick it to any sucker misfortunate enough to cross your path in need of what you're hoarding.

 

[haycraftzack622]

So I have owned several small businesses in my life and also worked in the car business for a few years. Worked in sales for two separate dealerships. One was a scumbag lying dumpster fire and the other one was a highly reputable company that I am still closely in touch with to this day (20 years later). I make no excuse for dealerships who pull tricks, lie to people, sell Factory orders out from under people or mislead their customer as to what they're buying price will be. I also personally hate unwanted add-ons that soak extra thousands of dollars from the consumer's pocket. For what it's worth I've never been a huge fan of any of extras including extended warranties, window etch, ceramic coating etc etc etc. That all being said, so long as a dealer is open and honest about what they're doing I have no problem with them selling their vehicles at actual Market value. I believe that any dealer that sells a new Maverick at sticker to a consumer deserves a trophy and is doing you a favor. I think a lot of us if we have the opportunity and cash to buy an extra XL hybrid at sticker would do it and turn around and sell it to carvana for a few thousand dollars in extra cash. It's crazy to me how people will call a dealership that's selling a vehicle at actual Market value a scumbag but would do essentially the same thing tomorrow if they could. At the end of the day there are people in this world who care a lot more about their own pocket than the guy buying their truck. Some of them are dealers and some of them are us. Enough said.

I know how you feel I hate a dealership that lies and sales someone else’s order without notifying them. I got lied to by James Collins ford in Louisville Kentucky they charged me way over sticker price.

 

[Tiger Dude]

People can of course do whatever the want with their property. But ordering a truck just to sell it means someone else didn't get to buy it for MSRP like you did. Pat yourself on the back for making money off of someone else. You won!

 

[Ellebob]

Personally, I do think it is scummy to try to sell above MSRP as a dealer. I worked car sales many years ago and It's one of the reasons I wouldn't stay in that industry. During the pandemic there were many products that were in demand and hard to get. However, I didn't see other retailers raise prices above MSRP. I could still go to Best Buy and get that TV for MSRP. There wasn't a lot of discounting during this time. But they weren't screwing their customers.

If someone bought a TV and resold it for more that is fine. But that shouldn't be happening at the dealer. Car sales is unique in this aspect and it does make them scumbags. It is a scummy industry and I do hope more manufacturers go the way of Tesla. Just order direct and be done with it, without any added fees or BS items added. Some dealers are better than others, but let's face it. There are a lot of scumbag dealers out there!

Buying a car is one of the most dreaded things consumers do. You are spending a lot of money on something and one should be happy but people dread the process. That tells you something about the industry's selling structure.

 

[GizzardLizard]

I'm not a fan of taking advantage of a particular situation in order to flip a product for a profit, but there's a difference between "hey heres the product I'm selling the price is x" and "hey here's the product I'm selling the price is x but when you get here to purchase it I'm going to increase it to y with no warning." Not to mention the difference between an individual selling something and a dealership with much more people, money, and power.

Not to mention all these ADMs are effectively creating a bubble. Whats going to happen in a few years to all the people who agreed to $10k ADMs when supply is no longer as tight and their trucks are now trading for normal value?

 

[FischAutoTechGarten]

the flippers and scalpers could care less that they snatched from others the opportunity to buy their's for MSRP. but the innerwebs are a weird place, they'll always have folks apologizing for them and defending this selfish behavior that decent people detest. happy flipping life...

if my patience and due diligence fails and I don't succeed in honestly ordering and receiving a maverick for my personal use, I certainly won't be rewarding all these folks who added no value to the exchange of goods process (but rather added an unnecessary and expensive layer that limited or eliminated my ability to customize the product to fit my needs) by throwing any of my hard earned money their way. i'll just keep on keeping on and drive my well cared for used vehicles. folks that choose to reward flippers and scalpers.. it is on them... I won't be.

but no one's minds will be changed with these discussions on these forums..
why does the drunk man stumble over to the lamp post? is it to benefit from the illumination provided by the light? or is it to seek the support of the pole itself? flippers and scalpers and their apologist who participate in these discussions don't want to see any light, it gives them a headache; they just want support in defense of one another... rest of us are just getting filthy wallowing in this mud with them.

 

[JimParker256]

As one who DID pay ADM to get a Maverick last year, I completely agree with Ford Truck Guy. It was my decision, and I will live with any consequences down the road.

Fortunately for me, I got WAY more than what I expected (basically what I originally paid for it) when I sold our C2500 HD Diesel. We did that not too long before ordering the Maverick. (I was optimistic back then - HA!) If I ever do decide to sell my Maverick, I will still be WAY ahead, even if it sold for $1,000. And anything resembling "normal" depreciation won't even come CLOSE to balancing the books on that earlier transaction, so I'm fine with taking the hit for the ADM I paid. You might say I was playing with "house money" on this deal...

 

[Huchipapa]

Excellent answer. America is full of choices. You can choose not to participate with your wallet, and you've still made a choice.

 

[JimParker256]

the flippers and scalpers could care less that they snatched from others the opportunity to buy their's for MSRP. but the innerwebs are a weird place, they'll always have folks apologizing for them and defending this selfish behavior that decent people detest. happy flipping life...
<< snip >>

And maybe we are FINALLY getting to the heart of your issue. You wanted to buy my Maverick for MSRP, and you're pissed off that I was willing to pay more than you were. I found sufficient value in the Maverick to pay that higher price. You didn't. End of story.

Honestly, if Ford has set the MSRP $5-$10K higher (XL - Lariat), I would definitely have still wanted (and purchased) a Maverick, because I believe that the Maverick (as currently priced) is an outstanding value. It's a pretty amazing vehicle that ticks every single check-mark for "what I want in a new vehicle." You seem to think it's just a cheap truck and not worth a penny more than the MSRP. But there are quite a few of us who apparently do believe the value is there - even at a higher price point. My money = my choice. Your money = your choice.

In the past, I've walked out of dealerships without purchasing a vehicle that was offered to me at well under MSRP. I did so because while I wanted the vehicle, I still did not see sufficient value, even at the lowered price. I've also paid a "special order fee" on a vehicle special-ordered from overseas (and waited 3 months for it to be built and shipped to the dealer) because I wanted a specific combination of paint color and options that was unavailable either on dealer lots or in the future deliveries.

I walked out of one dealership that offered me a Maverick at MSRP, then when I came in to purchase it, suddenly revealed that there were over $11K of "add-ons" that were beyond useless to me - some of them actually would detract from the value in my mind... (Paint Protectant - a $1000 wax job. Tire and wheel warranty - with no road hazard protection OR mileage guarantee. You get the idea...) But the biggest thing was that they flat-out LIED to me by telling me I could purchase the vehicle for MSRP when they had zero intention of selling it for that price. The other items were already added to the dealer's sticker before I got there... The combination of not seeing $11k over MSRP worth of "value" AND the dealer's flagrant lies caused me to walk out the door.

The point is: Value is in the eye of the purchaser. If it's worth more to me than to you, you shouldn't be angry that I paid that price and got the truck.

You're apparently willing to pay MSRP for your truck. But I'm sure there are plenty of people (I was one of them, until I bought the Maverick) who have NEVER in their lives paid the full MSRP for any vehicle from an US-based company. Should those people be as annoyed with you as you seem to be with those of us who paid over MSRP? In their eyes, you are overpaying, and costing them the opportunity to purchase at below MSRP. What's the difference between you and me in that scenario? It's just a matter of the perceived value. No one is asking you to change your perception of that value. Stick to your guns. Don't pay a penny more than YOU believe is justified by the value of the Maverick. But please stop being annoyed at those of us who perceive a higher value and are willing to pay that price.

All that said, I truly and sincerely hope that your Maverick order gets fulfilled in a timely manner, and that your dealer treats you honorably in the purchase transaction.

 

[Bechadono]

That does sound like something someone who'd worked in a dealership for a couple of decades would say.

So while we humor you, imagine this: you need a new washing machine, you look at Samsung, LG, Maytag, Whirlpool, etc. You do research, figure out you want a shiny new Korean beauty, and call your local appliance store to see if the Lucky Goldstar of your dreams is in stock. It's listed at $799, and they have one! But "this is an in-demand washer, and there's a markup" you hear. Well, okay, fair's fair -- how much is it out-the-door then? "Let's talk about that when you get here -- how does the middle of a weekday sound? There's a lot of people interested, better hurry!"

You'd hang up the phone, and you'd wonder why LG doesn't just set a price and require resale shops to adhere to it within +/- 5%, list it on a tag, and stop with the BS. None of this "well, the free market..." Just frustration and a friendly/accurate "you're an asshole" to the real life asshole trying to rake you over the coals.

And obviously Ford knows this is a problem, as does every other legacy automaker and newcomer, and that's precisely why they're all doing everything they can to force dealers to adhere to their pricing models for the next wave of electric vehicles (that is if they can't cut them out altogether). If the dealers really can't make it work the way they're all bellyaching about, Ford corporate will know soon enough, and the prices will go up across the board, get adjustments for rural areas, whatever. So be it.

Truth is I worked in a dealership 20 years ago, not for 2 decades. I actually left sales to work with kids and took a 60% pay cut to do it (I was making just over $50k when I left) When I met with the president of the dealership to tell him I was taking a new job he offered to have the company CFO advise me to be sure I would be treated will. He bent over backwards to help me go and work with kids and to this day is supportive. Let me tell you about that dealership. They took a chance at selling T-Birds at over sticker when they first came back. Everyone and I mean everyone paid 8 and a half percent over sticker to adjust for demand. When the market softened they decided to refund every single customer the overage they had paid and they haven't sold new cars over sticker since. Every maverick they sell is at sticker and they are willing to sell at plan pricing as well. I've been amazed at the response to this thread. Like I said in one of the threads, there are certainly scumbags out there but to think that none of us are ever selfish is just not being honest with yourself. There are a lot of great dealers out there, they shouldn't take a ribbing because you dealt with one that wasn't. So if you are buying a Maverick at sticker from your dealer and they treat you well (and most of them will) don't forget to thank them. If not then call the scumbag out by name and we'll all be done with them. Or do you want the whole world to look at you and treat you like your crazy uncle??

 

[FischAutoTechGarten]

And maybe we are FINALLY getting to the heart of your issue. You wanted to buy my Maverick for MSRP, and you're pissed off that I was willing to pay more than you were. I found sufficient value in the Maverick to pay that higher price. You didn't. End of story.

Honestly, if Ford has set the MSRP $5-$10K higher (XL - Lariat), I would definitely have still wanted (and purchased) a Maverick, because I believe that the Maverick (as currently priced) is an outstanding value. It's a pretty amazing vehicle that ticks every single check-mark for "what I want in a new vehicle." You seem to think it's just a cheap truck and not worth a penny more than the MSRP. But there are quite a few of us who apparently do believe the value is there - even at a higher price point. My money = my choice. Your money = your choice.

In the past, I've walked out of dealerships without purchasing a vehicle that was offered to me at well under MSRP. I did so because while I wanted the vehicle, I still did not see sufficient value, even at the lowered price. I've also paid a "special order fee" on a vehicle special-ordered from overseas (and waited 3 months for it to be built and shipped to the dealer) because I wanted a specific combination of paint color and options that was unavailable either on dealer lots or in the future deliveries.

I walked out of one dealership that offered me a Maverick at MSRP, then when I came in to purchase it, suddenly revealed that there were over $11K of "add-ons" that were beyond useless to me - some of them actually would detract from the value in my mind... (Paint Protectant - a $1000 wax job. Tire and wheel warranty - with no road hazard protection OR mileage guarantee. You get the idea...) But the biggest thing was that they flat-out LIED to me by telling me I could purchase the vehicle for MSRP when they had zero intention of selling it for that price. The other items were already added to the dealer's sticker before I got there... The combination of not seeing $11k over MSRP worth of "value" AND the dealer's flagrant lies caused me to walk out the door.

The point is: Value is in the eye of the purchaser. If it's worth more to me than to you, you shouldn't be angry that I paid that price and got the truck.

You're apparently willing to pay MSRP for your truck. But I'm sure there are plenty of people (I was one of them, until I bought the Maverick) who have NEVER in their lives paid the full MSRP for any vehicle from an US-based company. Should those people be as annoyed with you as you seem to be with those of us who paid over MSRP? In their eyes, you are overpaying, and costing them the opportunity to purchase at below MSRP. What's the difference between you and me in that scenario? It's just a matter of the perceived value. No one is asking you to change your perception of that value. Stick to your guns. Don't pay a penny more than YOU believe is justified by the value of the Maverick. But please stop being annoyed at those of us who perceive a higher value and are willing to pay that price.

All that said, I truly and sincerely hope that your Maverick order gets fulfilled in a timely manner, and that your dealer treats you honorably in the purchase transaction.

you'll never get it.

type paragraphs and paragraphs to justify your and others aggregious behavior. rushing to defend the indefensible. in the end it's selfishness and greed... and that I'll never get it.

later.

 

[Reconditioner]

I agree. Bought mine at msrp and 2.4 apr through Ford. Waited a year for my xl, no option, hybrid.

I gave thoughts to selling at a markup but I just love this little thing.

I mean….. what could I replace it with?

i still roll around in my 1991 ranger in the snow and when I’m dirty but, I don’t want to take my lady “uptown” in my rusted out ranger.

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