Ford surface care mandatory?

[Blessedintx]

I think this may be referring to the pre-order process that no longer exists since launch.

I got that info shortly after I placed my order 9/7/21

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[DryHeat]

In most cases, I don't think you would need a legal Buyers Order for a court to rule in your favor if you have any kind of signed document (even on a piece of scrap paper) showing an agreement between a dealer and yourself on the price of a yet to be built vehicle (unless the MSRP changed).

I agree with you about this. In fact, that has been the entire point of the discussion about Buyer's Orders up to now on this forum. It's about getting the signed form from the dealer and having it be an enforceable contract.

You object to using the term "Buyer's Order" to describe a form that has "Vehicle Buyer's Order" written across the top -- because it doesn't fully comply with the Virginia statute. I understand, but I don't think that's important to the discussion about how to lock down the terms of your deal.

What is important is that people realize two things: (1) they can get a signed "Buyer's Order" form from their dealer without a VIN, and (2) it is their best shot at protecting themselves from unexpected up-charges.

My concern is that implying that people can't get a Buyer's Order without a VIN, or that the Buyer's Order they get won't protect them, is misleading. I don't think you meant to do that, but blunt statements like "A Buyers Order is not a Buyers Order without a VIN" have that effect.

Anyway, I suppose we could take our lead from Prince and always refer to it as "the form sometimes erroneously known as Buyer's Order," but that's pretty tedious.

 

[Mymaverick2021]

I agree with everything stated here since I was called out for not responding to the same issue.

I will reiterate what I said in an earlier post with Bold for emphasis.

"I'm not saying you didn't sign a buyer's order and that the dealership won't give you one, but the legal standing of that contract is not rock solid since there is no specific car on the order. Contract law varies by state."

In PA even a verbal agreement can be a binding contract. The more documentation you have the better. You can sign a contract with a dealer to deliver a vehicle as you specified all you want. The dealer is not building that vehicle. Ford could change something at any point that the dealer has no control over that. Once Ford issues a VIN for your order, that vehicle build is set. That is the vehicle that will be delivered. So unless you have a specific VIN for a vehicle you are not guaranteed to get exactly what was agreed upon. This is why dealers are taking copies of licenses to prove the order is a real person and giving a copy of the DORA until the vehicle is scheduled for production and receives a VIN.

If you think you have a Buyer's Order that is rock solid and guarantees delivery of the vehicle you speficified, then I am very happy for you. If that gives you peace of mind that is good. But until you get a VIN and are scheduled for production that could change. Will you sue the dealer if Ford decides to do an in production change and they are unable to deliver exactly what you specified even though the dealer may not even be able to get it from Ford?

Why would any normal person want to go through that much grief over a truck Just move on and find another dealer that will give you a fair shake

 

[DryHeat]

No, a buyers order in many states is a specific legal document that dealers must comply with. There are regulatory documents and statutes that reference them. You are giving bad legal advice about this topic.

Ok... about that "bad legal advice"** bit...

I assume you are talking about my suggestion that a Buyer's Order without a VIN can be an enforceable contract (assuming it has all the essential terms and signatures). But I can't be sure. So let's test that.

Assume you are in a state that requires a Buyer's Order to contain a VIN. (I wonder how many actually have such a requirement?) And assume that you get a fully signed Buyer's Order that specifies the vehicle by attaching the DORA (as they do here) and specifies all the costs, etc., but lists no VIN for the as yet unbuilt and VIN-less truck.

Now... is it really your claim that the lack of a VIN will prevent such a Buyer's Order from being an enforceable contract? If so, why? If not, why is the advice bad?

You know, I use the term "Buyer's Order" because I want people to understand what form I am talking about -- and that form is titled "Buyer's Order" and referred to by dealers as a "Buyer's Order". I don't know what else to call it.

But if you really think I should call it something else please say why and make a suggestion.


**Disclaimer -- not really legal advice. No lawyer client relationship. Just internet musings.

 

[YazYaz]

I understand, but I don't think that's important to the discussion about how to lock down the terms of your deal.

I think it's important. It's wrong.

What is important is that people realize two things: (1) they can get a signed "Buyer's Order" form from their dealer without a VIN, and

If it doesn't have a VIN it's not a valid enforceable Buyers Order. I think that's been established.

(2) it is their best shot at protecting themselves from unexpected up-charges.

No. It's no better than having the dealer sign the DORA.

My concern is that implying that people can't get a Buyer's Order without a VIN, or that the Buyer's Order they get won't protect them, is misleading.

I don't think you meant to do that, but blunt statements like "A Buyers Order is not a Buyers Order without a VIN" have that effect.

No. I definitely meant it.

Anyway, I suppose we could take our lead from Prince and always refer to it as "the form sometimes erroneously known as Buyer's Order," but that's pretty tedious.

You are correct about the tedious part!

 

[DryHeat]

If you think you have a Buyer's Order that is rock solid and guarantees delivery of the vehicle you speficified, then I am very happy for you. ... But until you get a VIN and are scheduled for production that could change. Will you sue the dealer if Ford decides to do an in production change and they are unable to deliver exactly what you specified even though the dealer may not even be able to get it from Ford?

I think you know that you're creating a straw man, but I'll lay it out in case it was not intentional.

This entire discussion has been about dealers who, once your vehicle is delivered, try to increase your price by adding options or additional dealer markup. The signed Buyer's Order was suggested as a way to avoid that problem.

But now you shift to claiming that I think a Buyer's Orders guarantees Ford will build and deliver the vehicle as ordered. But no one has ever said that. (My Buyer's Order has a clause that allows cancellation if that happens.)

So, to get back to the issue at hand. I actually think that -- if and when my truck is delivered -- the dealer will have to sell it to me for the price we agreed on in the Buyer's Order. That's the problem raised by the OP about "Ford Surface Care." That's the problem I was discussing.

 

[DryHeat]

If it doesn't have a VIN it's not a valid enforceable Buyers Order. I think that's been established.

You are asking the wrong question, so it's not surprising you are getting the wrong answer.

The question is not whether it is a "valid enforceable Buyers Order." The question is whether the signed Buyer's Order is an enforceable contract. (FWIW, I think you are confusing individual state requirements regarding dealer record keeping with the legal requirements for an enforceable contract.)

I already referred you to other posts on this forum with links to articles saying a Buyer's Order is your best protection. Also, @fordvideoguy has a video on here saying the same thing, even though all Buyer's Orders for the Mavericks he is selling lack a VIN. That's about all I can do to help you on that.

Again, the important thing is that (as you recognized earlier) people can get a signed document from their dealer that will help protect them from up-charges on delivery. That document will say "Buyer's Order" at the top. The dealer will call it a "Buyer's Order." I call it a "Buyer's Order." Everybody calls it a "Buyer's Order."

But... You don't have to call it a "Buyer's Order" if you don't believe it is one. You'll just have to figure out something else to call it -- and find a way to make yourself understood.

No. It's no better than having the dealer sign the DORA.

Have you looked at a DORA and a Buyer's Order? They are very different.

--The DORA includes a description of the vehicle, options, and MSRP as it comes from the factory, but does not include other charges like taxes and doc fees, nor other (possibly less legitimate) charges.

--The properly drawn Buyer's Order contains all the information about what you are getting and what you are paying for it. (My Buyer's Order shows $2,700 more in charges than my DORA, for example.)

In my opinion, knowing all the charges ahead of time is way better than not knowing them.

 

[SeniorChiefMM]

I just got off the phone with my dealer and was told that Ford just started requiring Ford surface care for all new vehicles. He said that this just started within the last month. It's a $795 charge..

Anyone else hear of this?

Tell your “stealer” in no uncertain terms to go FUCK HIMSELF. If he has any questions direct him my way and I’ll happily blow his ass up with litigated and settled case law that addressed this exact sort of presumptive attitude in Mercury v. XXXX where a manufacturer tried to force buyers to buy a factory oil in order to maintain their warranty. Yeah, I’m not like your average street clown attorney who’ll tell you whatever the6 think you want t9 hear in order to get paid. No, my mission is all about undressing the clowns who want to stick it up your ass for a corporation without cause. Welcome to 2021.

 

[jc888888888]

Geez ,I feel really sorry for the nice young sales guy who sold me two vehicles if pulls any of this manure when I go to pick my truck .His day will turn real crappy in a hurry

 

[jc888888888]

tell them to GTH. Nothing more than 700 dollar profit for slapping some scotchguard on the fabric and some spritz on the finish. Ford itself would never do that it would PO all buyers and be nothing more than a bait and switch. Your dealer is trying to screw you, tell them you talked w/ Ford and denied it and want to know the name of the dealer you are (were) working with. They'd tried this with me on a Toyota back in the 80s and I laughed in their face and told them I didn't want their 90 percent markup and when they said well then we can't sell it to you cuz it would 'reflect badly' on them if the finish didn't hold up...I told them to shove it, went to another dealer and had 0 problem there.

Make sure when you tell them to GTH ,you also tell them ,I AM NOT WALKING AWAY FROM THIS. My attorney will contact you by end of business tomorrow, I am also going the the media and exposing your shenanigan's. Also just for giggles ,I am going out on every social media site like Reddit ,etc etc etc . they enjoy bad reviewing unscrupulous businesses like yours into the ground ,they are young astute social media savvy and know exactly how to do it.! whenever someone looks up directions to your establishment on google that person will be staring at minus 1 star reviews like 100 of them! Now folks you wanna me my truck under the terms we agreed to ?? or not? you have a choice the easy way or the hard way .I am getting the truck either way! Dont mind my rant I am practicing

 

[WhiteMaverick12]

Geez ,I feel really sorry for the nice young sales guy who sold me two vehicles if pulls any of this manure when I go to pick my truck .His day will turn real crappy in a hurry

Thankfully my experience was flawless. I told my salesman basically that up front. Jack with the price, I leave!

 

[Ponchsox]

I just got off the phone with my dealer and was told that Ford just started requiring Ford surface care for all new vehicles. He said that this just started within the last month. It's a $795 charge..

Anyone else hear of this?

You know what they say…you can’t BS a BSer!

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