Sponsored

inline_five

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2023
Threads
32
Messages
1,167
Reaction score
1,629
Location
-
Vehicle(s)
2023 Hybrid XLT
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
No you have to use OEM specific because the transmission uses the specific viscosity to not only lubricate but (depending on the transmission) as hydrologic power
Fluid in the Maverick is used to cool primarily and lubricate (small amount). There is no traditional torque converter. It's not even a CVT, as it does not continuously variate.

Here is a great primer on the HF35 which the HF45 in the Maverick is based off of, just with more cooling capabilities.



Also some more info:
Engineering Fords new HF45 hybrid transmission (sae.org)
Sponsored

 

GPSMan

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Threads
52
Messages
4,325
Reaction score
5,340
Location
CA
Vehicle(s)
Many
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Clubs
 
Not meaning to hijack your thread but…

I’m curious about this three way valve, do you have any more info or sources? I don’t see how a single three port valve would offer this without draining one system and overfilling the other.
I think it is more like this:

Consider the faucets in your home but the drain leads back to the pump (water heater) to recycle.

One faucet is always open.
Faucet two and three can randomly open and close as needed.

The pressure & flow would drop with three faucets open... unless the pump speeds up, and I'm pretty sure it does.

I have independently verified the water "faucet" (valve) for the HV battery pack is almost always closed, and in mine, only opens when the battery is above 105°F. I've never had my battery cold enough to need artificial heating.
 

GPSMan

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Threads
52
Messages
4,325
Reaction score
5,340
Location
CA
Vehicle(s)
Many
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Clubs
 
I will vote strongly for ULV primarily due to it's use as a cooling medium for the heat producing electric motors which will be my reason for changing it at greater frequency than recommended. I am in Texas so cold weather is not a particular concern but ULV may be more of a concern in below 0° temps. The use of square wires in the field coils to more tightly wind them making the motors smaller is interesting.
Changing transmission fluid in a SEALED SYSTEM without byproducts of combustion is rarely needed. I consider it akin to 5000 mile tire rotations. Some people want it, some don't. Some people need it, most don't.

The transmission fluid in the older variant of this hybrid was sealed and marketed as "lifetime" and it was for me. Never looked at, tested, changed, or added oil to my early HYBRID Escape with a similar transmission in 15 years and 235,000 miles. One aspect of hybrid technology is "going green" by needing less consumables.

Just something to think about.

Those who jump to conclusions about it being "cheap insurance" it's not, if there is between little and no risk to insure.
🤔

P.S. I recognize Ford does not call it "lifetime" in the Maverick. Being a truck, with a hitch, they probably expect these to be worked harder, than the old Escape, with no hitch, and zero tow rating.

Changing at 150,000 miles per Ford recommendation (which leans conservative) is going to be plenty early for most owners. That will be a great Blackstone Lab report.
 
Last edited:

WNYEscapee

2.0L EcoBoost
Well-known member
First Name
TJ
Joined
Jul 6, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
658
Reaction score
1,025
Location
BFLO
Vehicle(s)
2023 Maverick, 2019 Cherokee
Engine
2.0L EcoBoost
Clubs
 
ULV is not really that inexpensive -- it's pricey. I've also not seen any comparisons to a competitor's product. And don't get stuck in the thought that "Ford" makes it, they don't, like many components and products a suppliers makes it to their specification. That said, that spec can vary slightly from Ford's idea levels and it's not necessarily known if this is good or bad. As it is every manufacturer has their own specs and none of them seem to be linked to any one set of criteria so an apples-to-apples comparison can be done by the consumer.
I do know BG makes a universal blend ATF to be used during a transmission service which is compatible with ULV(they also have one which is not, don't get them mixed up), many shops use it as part of a transmission flush service, and I have not seen nor heard of any issues with the use of the product. You can gain some info on their products here: BG Products, Inc. – BG provides high quality products and equipment to dealerships, independent shops, and franchises so they can perform Automotive Maintenance Services on vehicles.
 

wax87

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
First Name
Stuart
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Threads
29
Messages
1,731
Reaction score
1,706
Location
Dallas South
Vehicle(s)
2004 Avalon
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Clubs
 
Just wanted to share what mine looks like with others in case they need it or just to discuss

RDT_20240103_2200573202704247572217307.png
I do a lot of off-road driving to get to my favorite outdoor locations. I decided to do an analysis of my transmission fluid (Motorcraft Mercon ULV) to have a a baseline that I can compare to as time and miles increase. So far I have 8xxx miles on the truck and I got it in late summer
so what is up with the cold Viscosity?
 

Sponsored

MakinDoForNow

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
First Name
James
Joined
Sep 24, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
8,462
Reaction score
6,026
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2022 Maverick
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Changing transmission fluid in a SEALED SYSTEM without byproducts of combustion is rarely needed. I consider it akin to 5000 mile tire rotations. Some people want it, some don't. Some people need it, most don't.

The transmission fluid in the older variant of this hybrid was sealed and marketed as "lifetime" and it was for me. Never looked at, tested, changed, or added oil to my early HYBRID Escape with a similar transmission in 15 years and 235,000 miles. One aspect of hybrid technology is "going green" by needing less consumables.

Just something to think about.

Those who jump to conclusions about it being "cheap insurance" it's not, if there is between little and no risk to insure.
🤔

P.S. I recognize Ford does not call it "lifetime" in the Maverick. Being a truck, with a hitch, they probably expect these to be worked harder, than the old Escape, with no hitch, and zero tow rating.

Changing at 150,000 miles per Ford recommendation (which leans conservative) is going to be plenty early for most owners. That will be a great Blackstone Lab report.
Thanks. I understand. I tend to over insure things. All insurance is excessive in cost until it's needed. I do have a detached garage due to it not having to be included in the base coverage amount and is covered by the 10% outbuilding paragraph. I also have a $50k additional coverage rider for a small fee so my garage and contents is covered for $115k. I have an entire sock drawer and entire underwear drawer of 72 pair each as insurance against having to mention to wife that my clean supply is low. She is not a happy camper if I improperly load "Her" personally picked costly washer. Plus if the tornado wiped out my sock and undy drawers the content coverage will pay me MSRP $ for individual purchased items. (72 undy times $10.95 = $788.40 = 🥰. On the downside when they start getting a little faded I have to replace them as my resting in peace mother dear always stressed the need of good clean undies if you had to go to the emergency room.😳.
 

GPSMan

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Threads
52
Messages
4,325
Reaction score
5,340
Location
CA
Vehicle(s)
Many
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Clubs
 
I see why socks come in "pairs" but why do you need a "pair" of underwear?

Does a top (T-shirt) and bottom constitute 1 pair? Probably way back when...

And why "pair of pants"!
Does that mean one leg is a pant?
 

MakinDoForNow

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
First Name
James
Joined
Sep 24, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
8,462
Reaction score
6,026
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2022 Maverick
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
I see why socks come in "pairs" but why do you need a "pair" of underwear?

Does a top (T-shirt) and bottom constitute 1 pair? Probably way back when...

And why "pair of pants"!
Does that mean one leg is a pant?
Don't know which "pair" determines the reference. Maybe they should be called "quads". I don't think either one of my legs could be referred to as a "pant".
 

Steveyg

2.0L EcoBoost
Well-known member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Oct 21, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
58
Reaction score
45
Location
Memphis TN area
Vehicle(s)
22 Maverick XLT/ 23 Maverick XL Hybrid
Engine
2.0L EcoBoost
Something not mentioned here yet is that one reason the transmission fluid is different in most hybrid vehicles is due to the electrical insulation properties that are needed.
 
Sponsored

Darnon

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Threads
10
Messages
5,720
Reaction score
7,227
Location
WNY
Vehicle(s)
2022 Maverick
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
It's not even a CVT, as it does not continuously variate.
It is, in fact, continuously variable. The planetary gear assembly functionally acts as a differential between the input of the ICE and the input of the starter/generator motor. By changing the speed and even direction of the starter/generator motor the Input:Output ratio of the ICE can be dynamically changed anywhere from underdriven to overdriven.

See from 17m
 

GPSMan

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Threads
52
Messages
4,325
Reaction score
5,340
Location
CA
Vehicle(s)
Many
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Clubs
 
It is, in fact, continuously variable. The planetary gear assembly functionally acts as a differential between the input of the ICE and the input of the starter/generator motor. By changing the speed and even direction of the starter/generator motor the Input:Output ratio of the ICE can be dynamically changed anywhere from underdriven to overdriven.

See from 17m
Inline_five is more right than wrong though....

The Hybrid has FIXED GEAR RATIOs and only one set of gears in mesh.

Traction motor RPM to Wheels RPM is always the same.

In EV drive mode Traction Motor RPM and Generator RPM to Wheels RPM is always the same. The fixed ratio is 250 RPM per 1 MPH (sorry I don't know the RPM of a tire that equals 1 MPH but someone does).

The gear ratio between the Engine and the Generator is a fixed ratio.

The gear ratio between the Engine and the Traction motor is a fixed ratio.

You have three components with fixed gear ratios to each other.

The only thing that is variable is if one component speeds up another component slows down. It is a trade off. You rob Peter to pay Paul.
 

MatthewPK

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Threads
9
Messages
133
Reaction score
94
Location
Orange County CA
Vehicle(s)
BMW
Engine
Undecided
Are there any fluids that can be substitute? Instead of ford, maybe Valvoline or something? I know for the Toyota Priuses they say to use the Toyota ATF, but there are other fluid manufacturers out there.
Afaik there is exactly one fluid that's licensed as a replacement for Mercon ULV

Kendall Versatrans ULV

https://kendallmotoroil.com/product/versatrans-ulv/


By the spec and licensing this should be an appropriate alternative fluid but I haven't seen any information from anybody anywhere that they've tried the swap.
 

Snox801

2.0L EcoBoost
Well-known member
First Name
Levi
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Threads
39
Messages
1,742
Reaction score
2,035
Location
Spring Lake Michigan
Vehicle(s)
23 F150-2016 RS/ 22 GT500/ rx8 x2/ 95 mustang GT/ 17 edge.
Engine
2.0L EcoBoost
No you have to use OEM specific because the transmission uses the specific viscosity to not only lubricate but (depending on the transmission) as hydrologic power
I don’t believe that to be correct. It has standards and as long as those standards are met it’s fine. Take for example the dct on the gt 500. It calls for only one kind of fluid from ford. But knowing guys who work in the engineering department for them. They actually have several brands that are just fine if not better. But ford is in the business of creating repeat customers.
 

Snox801

2.0L EcoBoost
Well-known member
First Name
Levi
Joined
Nov 16, 2023
Threads
39
Messages
1,742
Reaction score
2,035
Location
Spring Lake Michigan
Vehicle(s)
23 F150-2016 RS/ 22 GT500/ rx8 x2/ 95 mustang GT/ 17 edge.
Engine
2.0L EcoBoost
Changing transmission fluid in a SEALED SYSTEM without byproducts of combustion is rarely needed. I consider it akin to 5000 mile tire rotations. Some people want it, some don't. Some people need it, most don't.

The transmission fluid in the older variant of this hybrid was sealed and marketed as "lifetime" and it was for me. Never looked at, tested, changed, or added oil to my early HYBRID Escape with a similar transmission in 15 years and 235,000 miles. One aspect of hybrid technology is "going green" by needing less consumables.

Just something to think about.

Those who jump to conclusions about it being "cheap insurance" it's not, if there is between little and no risk to insure.
🤔

P.S. I recognize Ford does not call it "lifetime" in the Maverick. Being a truck, with a hitch, they probably expect these to be worked harder, than the old Escape, with no hitch, and zero tow rating.

Changing at 150,000 miles per Ford recommendation (which leans conservative) is going to be plenty early for most owners. That will be a great Blackstone Lab report.
Ahh yes the lifetime fill. Sounds very similar to the ptu lifetime fill on the escape awd. Well that turned out not to be lifetime at all. In fact ford has greatly changed the specs and cooling on the new ones.
Similar to any lifetime fill. It may work for some but to say it’s not needed or not even insurance is flat out wrong. Try any kind of towing or mountain driving in the summer for long periods of time. Heat kills oils and fluids. So for some yes it fine a 20-30 drive most days to work will never kill it. Drive consistently 12-16 hours a day will.
Sponsored

 
 







Top