The Maverick is not yours until it is.

[Mav_RICK]

You are lucky that you wanted a 'standard' build - one of the ones that are in the pipeline. It really helps if you're not picky about colors, and don't want any "oddball" optional features (not part of the "packages") that the distributorship has decided don't "belong" in your area... Like engine pre-heaters in the South - you simply cannot get 'em...

A few years back, my daughter wanted a Hyundai Veloster in red, but NOT with the more common black interior (those were everywhere). There were dozens of red/black in the pipeline, but we could not find one that was red/red. None of the local dealers would even take her "order" for one, because they could see 2 months ahead in the pipeline, and knew Hyundai wasn't building any that way... Conversations with the regional distributor went nowhere, as a dealership would have to agree to accept that order before they would even ask for one to be built (3-4 months lead time, at least), and none of the local dealerships would do that, thinking that the red/red would be an unsellable vehicle. The fact that she was willing to put a deposit down was meaningless to them, because they figured once she saw it she would bail on the order, and they'd be stuck with a vehicle they could not sell. That's how "convinced" they were that red/red was not viable.

There is a happy ending to this story. A dealership in another state (different distributor) just happened to have one in stock, and agreed to hold it for 24 hours for her. She hopped on a plane and flew there, bought it, and drove it home. Ironically, the entire time she owned that Veloster, people would walk up to her in parking lots, asking if she would sell it to them. It looked GREAT! But the distributor apparently just didn't like red-on-red, and refused to order any for their dealers, so that was the end of it as far as they were concerned.

You imply that somehow when ordering through Ford you don't have to accept the " standard build " yet I have seen all kinds of examples of Fords that customers order that have to be modified so they can get their vehicle. This is true for not only the Maverick but F150s and Broncos just to name a few. I have even seen examples of special ordered F150s showing up at the dealership with options removed without the customer even knowing about the change. Customers can and do refuse these orders at the dealership. You only get what Ford can build as well.

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[Mav_RICK]

I like the Ford ordering model better than the Toyota/Honda package model.

Ford will create for me a bespoke vehicle. The color I want, the options I want and I don't have to pay for the things I don't want, like a sunroof.

I have ordered a couple of trucks from Ford before the Mavericks. It used to take 6-8 weeks. It is not their business model, it is Ford's recent execution that has been lacking with the Maverick ordering process. I think someday it will improve.

I will not pay for anything until I test drive it.

It goes beyond Maverick. But your point is fair. I have to believe the Ford process can and has been executed much better in the past.

 

[Maverick131]

It goes beyond Maverick. But your point is fair. I have to believe the Ford process can and has been executed much better in the past.

Dealerships are changing from mass production to order to build to order. Its better for the company, not for the buyer because it will force factories to rush production.

 

[DKubik]

The difference is when you paid your deposit you did not even have a truck allocated to you through your dealership and you may not ever get the truck. FWIW I didn't pay a depot on the Maverick. When I paid my deposit on the Toyota , after accepting the build, a vehicle was allocated to me through the dealership and the allocation is a vehicle they are ready to build. There is quite a difference actually.

Literally the same thing just different words being used.
I paid a deposit and received a build date along with confirmation of what exactly I ordered along with an approximate schedule. Everything you've written is the exact same, with different descriptors being used. I also had a VIN number 2 months before I received my truck.
All the same thing.

 

[Mav_RICK]

Literally the same thing just different words being used.
I paid a deposit and received a build date along with confirmation of what exactly I ordered along with an approximate schedule. Everything you've written is the exact same, with different descriptors being used. I also had a VIN number 2 months before I received my truck.
All the same thing.

When your money left your hands you had no idea whether you would even get an allocation. You had no idea whether you would be able to keep your build as it was submitted in order to get it built. Yes for you it resulted in the same thing you got a build date and perhaps you never changed anything to get your truck built. There are thousands of Maverick customers that won't have that result even though they did exactly the same process that you did. If you are a Toyota customer and followed the process I did, you are getting that Toyota period. There is a difference.

 

[JimParker256]

You imply that somehow when ordering through Ford you don't have to accept the " standard build " yet I have seen all kinds of examples of Fords that customers order that have to be modified so they can get their vehicle. This is true for not only the Maverick but F150s and Broncos just to name a few. I have even seen examples of special ordered F150s showing up at the dealership with options removed without the customer even knowing about the change. Customers can and do refuse these orders at the dealership. You only get what Ford can build as well.

No one had to modify their order. They did so voluntarily, because they believed it would improve the odds of their truck being selected for production due to highly constrained items on their order. There were also thousands of orders that got built with constrained items, and delivered, even as other orders that did not have constrained items did not.

Is it possible that some unscrupulous dealers removed options or changed configurations on special-ordered vehicles without the customers consent? Certainly. But that is NOT the norm, nor is it considered ethical practice. The much more common scenario was a dealer rolling over a '22 order to '23 (or even placing a new '23 order) for a Lariat Lux/360 without the Assist package, because they didn't read the order guide well enough to understand that ACC and backup sensors were now in the Assist package. Some of them even tried to blame Ford for screwing up the order. But that's simply not the way it works...

Ford themselves absolutely does not (and will not) change your special order build (add or delete items) unless your dealer tells them to. More often than not, when dealers make this claim, they FUBARed the order themselves - as in the many cases of '23 Lariats being delivered without ACC because the dealers didn't read the order guide to understand they needed to order CP360+Assist to get it. That's not Ford screwing up or purposely changing the order.

The huge difference in the two processes we're talking about is that the Asian model ONLY allows orders to be placed by the regional distributor. Dealers only tell the distributor how many they think they can sell, and get whatever the distributor sends them. The factory builds exactly what the distributor orders. If the distributor orders nothing but "standard" make/model/trim vehicles, with NO add-ons, that's all the will ever be delivered to any dealer in their distribution area. If, on the other hand, the distributor decides that ALL top-end models will be fully optioned with what they believe to be the best-selling (or highest profit-margin) options, that's what ALL the dealers in their area will get.

Some of the distributors are better at handling "special" orders than others, or they will occasionally mix things up with a "different" configuration (like my daughter's red Veloster with red interior), but others decide what they're going to order and that's it... If your "wants" happen to coincide with the distributor's purchase decisions, great. If you want a combination of trim level and options the distributor doesn't want to order, you're SOL.

Another example: Several years ago, the Mazda distributor for Texas decided that all mid- and upper-level trim Mazdas he ordered would also get a sunroof. Now it just happens that the Mazda sunroof design at the time reduced headroom just enough that my head came in contact with the sunroof in every single Mazda sedan they were building.. I loved Mazdas, and had owned a total of 5 of them, plus 2 more I bought for my kids. But once that guy decided to add sunroofs to every model I had interest in, I could no longer purchase Mazdas, because I physically could not fit in them because of the sunroof. (PS - I'm only 5'11", so imagine what a taller person would deal with!)

After MUCH effort on my part, I was finally able to speak directly with the person at the distributer who decided what got ordered for the region and was told that he feld that high-end sedans should have a sunroof. Thus ALL the high-end Mazda sedan models sold in Texas would come with the "optional" sunroof. Period. He suggested I try one of their SUVs (also with sunroof on the high-end models) to see if I would fit. I told him I didn't want an SUV, I wanted a sedan without a sunroof... Sorry, not gonna happen... Thus I started buying other brands, and Mazda lost a life-long customer.

 

[Mav_RICK]

No one had to modify their order. They did so voluntarily, because they believed it would improve the odds of their truck being selected for production due to highly constrained items on their order. There were also thousands of orders that got built with constrained items, and delivered, even as other orders that did not have constrained items did not.

Is it possible that some unscrupulous dealers removed options or changed configurations on special-ordered vehicles without the customers consent? Certainly. But that is NOT the norm, nor is it considered ethical practice. The much more common scenario was a dealer rolling over a '22 order to '23 (or even placing a new '23 order) for a Lariat Lux/360 without the Assist package, because they didn't read the order guide well enough to understand that ACC and backup sensors were now in the Assist package. Some of them even tried to blame Ford for screwing up the order. But that's simply not the way it works...

Ford themselves absolutely does not (and will not) change your special order build (add or delete items) unless your dealer tells them to. More often than not, when dealers make this claim, they FUBARed the order themselves - as in the many cases of '23 Lariats being delivered without ACC because the dealers didn't read the order guide to understand they needed to order CP360+Assist to get it. That's not Ford screwing up or purposely changing the order.

The huge difference in the two processes we're talking about is that the Asian model ONLY allows orders to be placed by the regional distributor. Dealers only tell the distributor how many they think they can sell, and get whatever the distributor sends them. The factory builds exactly what the distributor orders. If the distributor orders nothing but "standard" make/model/trim vehicles, with NO add-ons, that's all the will ever be delivered to any dealer in their distribution area. If, on the other hand, the distributor decides that ALL top-end models will be fully optioned with what they believe to be the best-selling (or highest profit-margin) options, that's what ALL the dealers in their area will get.

Some of the distributors are better at handling "special" orders than others, or they will occasionally mix things up with a "different" configuration (like my daughter's red Veloster with red interior), but others decide what they're going to order and that's it... If your "wants" happen to coincide with the distributor's purchase decisions, great. If you want a combination of trim level and options the distributor doesn't want to order, you're SOL.

Another example: Several years ago, the Mazda distributor for Texas decided that all mid- and upper-level trim Mazdas he ordered would also get a sunroof. Now it just happens that the Mazda sunroof design at the time reduced headroom just enough that my head came in contact with the sunroof in every single Mazda sedan they were building.. I loved Mazdas, and had owned a total of 5 of them, plus 2 more I bought for my kids. But once that guy decided to add sunroofs to every model I had interest in, I could no longer purchase Mazdas, because I physically could not fit in them because of the sunroof. (PS - I'm only 5'11", so imagine what a taller person would deal with!)

After MUCH effort on my part, I was finally able to speak directly with the person at the distributer who decided what got ordered for the region and was told that he feld that high-end sedans should have a sunroof. Thus ALL the high-end Mazda sedan models sold in Texas would come with the "optional" sunroof. Period. He suggested I try one of their SUVs (also with sunroof on the high-end models) to see if I would fit. I told him I didn't want an SUV, I wanted a sedan without a sunroof... Sorry, not gonna happen... Thus I started buying other brands, and Mazda lost a life-long customer.

Jim,

first thanks for your very sincere and thought out response to the issue I have raised here. All your post are very thought provoking. Yes it's true nobody had to modify their order and many got their order just as they ordered it, but it is also true that many will not be scheduled because they didn't change their order.

I would have preferred to have the assist package but I didn't want the lux package, well you can't have one without the other. Even if you could there is no doubt the assist would have been constrained without the Lux package. I settled for just co-pilot 360 but even then I worried that alone might nix my chances for a Maverick. I originally ordered a stand alone hitch but then dropped it because I thought it might help my chances.

So I may not have had to do that but I will never know. There is no doubt that stand alone hitch will stop some builds from ever happening. Along with other options that people wanted on their Mavericks.

As for Ford not changing orders, well I have heard from a dealer that I will not name that said point blank there are F150s on his lot not sold because the build were changed at the factory so they could keep building trucks and these trucks were sent to dealerships and customers refused the truck because they came without features they ordered. Yes you are right it also happens because dealerships change orders as well but that's not what he was talking about.

Another issue the Toyota system improves on is unlike the Ford system there is no need or incentive to order multiple trucks from different dealerships to improve your odds of getting just the one. You can get in multiple lines at different dealerships to get an allocation, once you get that allocation you do one order because that vehicle is going to come to you. doesn't matter how many lines your in at that point. The other dealerships are notified you got your order in so they just scratch you off their list. No canceled orders needed.

But yes if the Ford system is properly executed then sure it's probably preferable but the question is can it be executed correctly with a high demand low inventory vehicle? I think this whole Maverick fiasco demonstrates it doesn't work very well for many. BTW I'm a Mazda fan as well. Had a CX-5 for 7 years and loved it. That's what I traded for the Cross Hybrid. I'm 6 ft and had no issues with the sun roof.

 

[JimParker256]

BTW I'm a Mazda fan as well. Had a CX-5 for 7 years and loved it. That's what I traded for the Cross Hybrid. I'm 6 ft and had no issues with the sun roof.

Yep - I got to ride in a CX-9 (I think?) with a sunroof, and no issues. I don't know why the sunroof affects the sedans so much... It's just weird. The "moonroof" (what's the difference between a sunroof and a moonroof?) in the Maverick also doesn't seem to impact the headroom much...

Good points on the other stuff. I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other, especially since both are pretty flawed right now... Whether it's supply chain issues, high vehicle demand, or a combination of both, the entire auto industry is pretty messed up.

 

[Mav_RICK]

Its a moonroof by night and a sunroof by day who really knows?!?!

 

[jewc75]

Ive purchased 9 new Fords, 2 Chevy's, and a VW since 2008, always had a signed purchase order, and have never had a dealer tell me sorry we cant sell it to you. A signed PO is a legally binding contract that neither you or your dealer can walk from unless contingencies are written in the PO that give you or them an out for some reason. Most common would be financing. Once i have the signed PO i consider the vehicle mine and so does the law.

 

[Mav_RICK]

Ive purchased 9 new Fords, 2 Chevy's, and a VW since 2008, always had a signed purchase order, and have never had a dealer tell me sorry we cant sell it to you. A signed PO is a legally binding contract that neither you or your dealer can walk from unless contingencies are written in the PO that give you or them an out for some reason. Most common would be financing. Once i have the signed PO i consider the vehicle mine and so does the law.

You can have all the signed POs in the world from a Ford dealership but that don’t mean you are going to get it.

 

[jewc75]

You can have all the signed POs in the world from a Ford dealership but that don’t mean you are going to get it.

Of course it has to be built to be able to get it.

 

[Mav_RICK]

Of course it has to be built to be able to get it.

It ain’t built when you sign is it? It is with Toyota.

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