Ford Shifting to Build-to-Order Model

[Red Ryder]

Yup. Catch them just right when that one vehicle means a huge bonus from Ford. Lose 1k make 15k

Bargain aggressively and hold your ground. You sometimes have to walk. A few days or weeks later, you get a call and they are more than willing to take your previously "impossible" offer.
This works sometimes and other times they never call. Either way, you know about where the bottom is or you missed the "factory to dealer" incentive timing for that period. This only really works out if you are casually shopping and have time to catch that one that makes a difference as STARCOMMTREY1 described.

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[shark978]

If this Maverick is not what we all expect, Ford will be in a world of shit. Almost all of us have a refundable deposit. If we walk away and the vehicle is bad, they will have a bunch of Edsels on their lots and all their capitol will have already been spent. That is why they really need to get Mavericks to dealers so we can DRIVE them, before they make all of these trucks.

I really hope this will not be the case.

Hell, I was sold on this concept before it was even on their website.

Just food for thought.

Not sure what can really go wrong though. I guess the hybrid is not tested but the 2.0 has been used before. The rest of the truck looks a lot like the Bronco Sport to me which is also built cheaply, not like a "real Bronco". Now as long as we arent heavy duty offroading with these hopefully Ford knows what they are doing and which corners to cut, which they should.

It's cheap truck, you can tell that.

There are likely to be some initial issues with a brand new model. That's what the 3/36 bumper to bumper is for

 

[notfast]

Manufacturers need to allow dealers to stock lot units.

It's a careful consideration to make. On the one hand, if manufacturers make just a handful of units for dealer stock, dealers might be incentivized to sell what they have now to a customer right in front of them. This is opposed to encouraging the customer to place an order and wait 6-8 weeks, during which time, the customer can get cold feet and cancel the order.

FWIW, I've been negotiating with car dealers since the early 80's.

How many cars have you purchased over those 40 or so years? A good salesperson at a decent store can sell 20 cars a month; a great salesperson double that. If you bought one car a year since 1980, you would've been a part of as many negotiations over 40 years that a good salesperson does in two months.

Yup. Catch them just right when that one vehicle means a huge bonus from Ford. Lose 1k make 15k

Or just buy a car that they want to get off the lot because it's unpopular dealer stock that they were required to take, usually for allocation or dealer-trade purposes.

That's how my last purchase went. I wanted a unpopular, but somewhat common, configuration. Went to the dealer and asked for $1000 off MSRP. The sales rep said it's tough on that car, but he'd ask. His desk was right outside the tower. I heard the sales manager say, "He wants that one?! Give it to him! Quick! Before he leaves!" I later found out that the car had only $700 in profit. They figured they'd never sell it, so they parked it behind 8 other cars in the showroom as an interior demonstrator.

The one thing I haven't checked off the car-buying bucket list is to custom-order a car. As a primarily Ford person, the reason I haven't ordered one yet is because of the incentives on stock units. Anyone will take anything for the right price. I got over 25% off the last F-150 I bought and I got about 15% off the Ford Edge I bought.

Yes, orders are subject to the incentives available at the time of delivery. But fortunately, I haven't needed anything so specific that I'd be willing to chance incentives to get exactly what I need versus taking a stock unit that is close enough to what I need, but for a discounted price. This goes back to what I said before about dealers being in a similar situation...sell what you have now versus encouraging customers to order.

I tru

One would think that Ford, others will simplify options for bying online, but no they make it too complicated. Maverick is a hellscape of options and trims.

I think it's pretty simple. On the one hand you have products like the Ranger which have a comparable number of trims, and on the other hand you have the F-150 which has so many possibilities that they tend to overlap.

For example, an F-150 XLT 302A with a couple of free-standing options selected is basically a Lariat 501A, but without leather seats or auto 4WD.

Yes, Ford also has several free-standing options for the Maverick. But that's the path that Ford chose and that they decided that most their customers liked. When buying a new car, free-standing options give customers freedom to pick out the features that they want without having to pay for anything else.

Obviously Ford missed the target on a couple of things (cruise control for one). But they could've taken a Honda-style route and have next to zero free-standing options. Want a feature? Got to get a trim that has it. Want heated seats but no moonroof? Too bad.

 

[Red Ryder]

How many cars have you purchased over those 40 or so years? A good salesperson at a decent store can sell 20 cars a month; a great salesperson double that. If you bought one car a year since 1980, you would've been a part of as many negotiations over 40 years that a good salesperson does in two months.

Not so sure the point you're making with quantity of transactions, but my point was that over that 40-year period, the car buying experience has improved. The process is more businesslike and less cutthroat than those early days.
I think you may have misunderstood me as meaning I have a lot of car buying experience.

Original post: https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/f...fting-to-build-to-order-model.1547/post-29521

 

[notfast]

I think you may have misunderstood me as meaning I have a lot of car buying experience.

Ah yeah, you got me there. Apologize for my incorrect interpretation! I agree; the dealership car buying experience has improved, at least in the two decades I've been car-buying. To date, I've bought and sold in the neighborhood of 30 cars, so I have nowhere near the experience of an actual salesperson either. I did a stint as a mechanic at a franchised (sells new and used cars) dealership, but not front-of-house sales.

I think the Internet is partly to blame/thank (depending on your perspective) for the improvement in the buying experience. Buyers have a lot more info than they did before, such as billboards/forums like these, and can cross-shop dealers while sitting in their living rooms.

I can say hands-down that my best dealership car buying experience to date has been via CarMax. Yes, they only sell preowned vehicles, but the way they do it in my opinion is very good.

I found the car I wanted on a Sunday night and reserved it. That immediately de-listed it from the website, which I thought was great. Meant that someone couldn't buy it out from under me, even if they showed up at the store 10 minutes later. A sales rep texted me the next morning to finalize the store-to-store transfer details.

I got emails the entire time...car has the features I couldn't quite make out in the pictures, car is being prepped for shipment, car is in transport, car has arrived, car is being inspected, car is ready for viewing. I made an appointment for the following weekend to check out the car and took it for a 24-hour test drive (150 mile limit).

Parked it in the garage, verified I could open the doors/trunk easily, loaded up car seats/coolers/stuff to see how they'd fit, ran some typical errands. Being a former mechanic, I jacked it up and gave it a thorough once-over. Returned the next day to sign the paperwork.

No rushing to the dealership to get the car before someone buys it out from under you. No negotiations; price on the car is it, all things accounted for. Zero pressure or obligation to buy. Heck, every car includes a 30-day, 1000-mile, 100% money back option.

 

[Mephistopheles]

yes, and I would tell you that number is inflated on new car sales. Profit margins are pretty slim on new cars unless you let them add markups and sell u unneeded stuff like Teflon paint treatment. Used cars are the profit makers. Have you ever worked in car sales or known anyone that did to tell you all the tricks? That has helped shape my thinking and buying experience expectations.

Here's the thing: time is money. my free time is valuable to me. We have a lot of folks here ordering cars and thinking they will walk away if they don't like it when it arrives. Seems like a huge waste of time and effort to me. I need to see and drive a car I'm thinking to buy before I buy it. If I don't like it then- walk away with little wasted time or effort. I also don't mind the haggling over OTD price when there is so much info out there with invoice, etc. to review. I used to really like Edmunds True Value on market pricing based on actual sales. I always come in with financing arranged and/or my checkbook and don't budge on what I will pay. Different strokes for different generations I guess.

BTW: my friendly dealer rep showed me there is maybe $700.00 difference between Invoice and MSRP on Maverick and my build comes in well below my budget estimate so it's all good going the route I always have and no reason to change for me.

Invoice includes 400-700 in "holdback" (usually 500), which the dealer gets from the manufacturer once it's sold. This makes the profit margin about $1,200, like the guy said.

I don't completely disagree with you that it is nice to have somewhat local dealerships, for certain things, however if I had my way I would rather go through a local mechanic and simply have the ability to order manufacture Parts directly. The trade-off is who does warranty repairs, but that could easily be done via local mechanics getting certification through different brands to do their warranty repairs.

This keeps more money in the hands of local businesses, eliminates the mark-up that the dealers make on a vehicle.

I don't necessarily think dealer shouldn't exist oh, but I definitely don't see the reason to have one in almost every other small town oh, for like 3 to 7 different brands.

Seems extremely wasteful to just keep that many vehicles on hand, when most people don't go and buy a vehicle all that often oh, you can have three or four dealerships per state and that would be plenty.

I'm pretty embittered by the dealership experience right now, because of the Hyundai Santa Cruz which I was salivating for before I got to drive one ( fun to drive, interior disappointed), has been marked up too ridiculous levels, because of the slow trickle of vehicles.

I have little doubt if Ford was in a similar situation and was not truly building to order, many of us would suffer a similar Fate on the Maverick, you can dealers know if they could squeeze at least a little bit more out of the most excited.

On probably 8 out of the 10 Santa Cruz I was looking at, the mark-up range between 2000 and $5,000. The other ones were either at MSRP, but the wrong type, or sold immediately at MSRP.

As someone who is quite a fan of laissez-faire economics I don't have a problem with dealerships marking things up, but I have a problem with them marking it up but Ford not seeing any of it. It doesn't go to the hand of the manufacturer that could alleviate the shortage through potentially paying for priority on chips, or increasing Manufacturing throughput, it just lines the dealership pockets.

That all said, I'm pretty content with the dealership experience I've had with Ford thus far, and it's done a little bit to soften my frustration.

 

[ArizonaLouie]

Car dealers do have a place. A physical location to test drive an example of a desired model. Also, the service aspect.

Is a salesman really needed? Most people looking for a certain model are more versed in the specifics of the vehicle than a salesperson. The car buying experience is usually a two day experience when dealing with a salesperson (you all know the dance..."let me talk to my manager" BS)
I bought a used car from Vroom. It was two hours total on the computer (including utilizing VRoom's financing. The car showed up days later.

If Build-To-Order cuts out the "games" and saves a few bucks, I'd welcome it.
It all comes down to patience or the "need for immediate gratification. I can wait.

 

[Chris_G]

Car dealers do have a place. A physical location to test drive an example of a desired model. Also, the service aspect.

Is a salesman really needed? Most people looking for a certain model are more versed in the specifics of the vehicle than a salesperson. The car buying experience is usually a two day experience when dealing with a salesperson (you all know the dance..."let me talk to my manager" BS)
I bought a used car from Vroom. It was two hours total on the computer (including utilizing VRoom's financing. The car showed up days later.

If Build-To-Order cuts out the "games" and saves a few bucks, I'd welcome it.
It all comes down to patience or the "need for immediate gratification. I can wait.

I agree with you.

I will say it would have been nice to have a knowledgeable sales person to assist with my Maverick order. Instead I was just handed a tablet to complete my own order. My option information came from the fine folks on this site.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

My last 5-6 BMW’s I ordered, my last one an X3 I ordered out of Charlotte in Jan 2020 and got a quote on my trade in on line as well as negotiated a discount without every visiting the dealer (Hendricks). Only had to take about 10 pictures of the trade in. From the day I ordered to delivery was 30 days, yes 30 days. X3 was built in South Carolina and shipped 90 miles to Charlotte. I’ve bought ones produced in Germany and a Mini produced in England and 12 weeks was the longest time it ever took to deliver to the dealer. Just because you order on line doesn’t change recalls, service, loaner cars, negotiating or anything else.

But, they were already in production, that’s the differe

Car dealers do have a place. A physical location to test drive an example of a desired model. Also, the service aspect.

Is a salesman really needed? Most people looking for a certain model are more versed in the specifics of the vehicle than a salesperson. The car buying experience is usually a two day experience when dealing with a salesperson (you all know the dance..."let me talk to my manager" BS)
I bought a used car from Vroom. It was two hours total on the computer (including utilizing VRoom's financing. The car showed up days later.

If Build-To-Order cuts out the "games" and saves a few bucks, I'd welcome it.
It all comes down to patience or the "need for immediate gratification. I can wait.

During the mad rush between Black Friday and Christmas, a company I worked for,CompUSA, sent everyone to the sales floor. My last 2 years there I was the Master tech (corporate build tech +mini computer and servers), Advsnced technology trainer(MCP, MCSE, Cisco, X500 etc) and the Training center business manager.

money of the most frequent issues we had was returns. So we would ask what the customer thought they needed, what they thought they wanted and how they used the computer, software, and printers, plus a bunch of other questions. When we sold them the computer they needed, vs the computer they thought they wanted, returns plummeted and profits went up. The salesman was there to assist in the buying experience to help make certain the customer was taken care of.
BTO at present does not allow for that. A good salesman is always useful to help make certain the assumptions being made by the customer fit the needs of the customer by directing them properly,

whst percentage of people have changed their order here in the forums, some more than once? A good salesman could have reduced those changes.

 

[dceggert]

* Snip

...you can have three or four dealerships per state and that would be plenty.

* Snip

I disagree. We have 3 BMW Motorcycle dealerships in Michigan and that is why I no longer have one. The nearest to me is 45 minutes away. When I leave a bike for repair I would rather not have to ask someone to take 1.5+ hours out of their day to pick me up.

My local Ford dealer is 3 miles away and I can walk to it to pick up a new vehicle or walk home from dropping it off for service. If that dealer was an hour or even more away it would be very difficult.

Then there is an interesting tidbit about our geography. Probably 2/3 of the population lives in the southern 1/3 of the lower peninsula. If all 3 dealerships were in that area of the State then the people living up in the North would be in a world of hurt. It takes 11 hours to drive from the Detroit metro area to Menominee. If one wanted to drive from Detroit to Washington, D.C. they would get to DC faster than they could get to Menominee.

It is best to leave these sorts of things to the free market. You did not buy that SC and if others did that then that dealer would sit on that vehicle. Unfortunately, there is always someone that feels they NEED that vehicle and pays whatever the asking price. MSRP is just that...suggested.

I am sorry you have had bad experiences at dealers and don't like them. I have a great relationship with my local Ford dealer. I have had the same salesman for 12 years and 4 vehicles now, the Mav will be my 5th. He just asks 'what do you want this time?' He then works to find the closest he can get using the online inventory system for all dealers. Some dealers, like when I was shopping for my Ranger, just flat refuse to trade because they are asking a markup over MSRP. In those cases he just keeps expanding the search area. He finds it for me.

 

[Old Ranchero]

Invoice includes 400-700 in "holdback" (usually 500), which the dealer gets from the manufacturer once it's sold. This makes the profit margin about $1,200, like the guy said.

I don't completely disagree with you that it is nice to have somewhat local dealerships, for certain things, however if I had my way I would rather go through a local mechanic and simply have the ability to order manufacture Parts directly. The trade-off is who does warranty repairs, but that could easily be done via local mechanics getting certification through different brands to do their warranty repairs.

This keeps more money in the hands of local businesses, eliminates the mark-up that the dealers make on a vehicle.

I don't necessarily think dealer shouldn't exist oh, but I definitely don't see the reason to have one in almost every other small town oh, for like 3 to 7 different brands.

Seems extremely wasteful to just keep that many vehicles on hand, when most people don't go and buy a vehicle all that often oh, you can have three or four dealerships per state and that would be plenty.

I'm pretty embittered by the dealership experience right now, because of the Hyundai Santa Cruz which I was salivating for before I got to drive one ( fun to drive, interior disappointed), has been marked up too ridiculous levels, because of the slow trickle of vehicles.

I have little doubt if Ford was in a similar situation and was not truly building to order, many of us would suffer a similar Fate on the Maverick, you can dealers know if they could squeeze at least a little bit more out of the most excited.

On probably 8 out of the 10 Santa Cruz I was looking at, the mark-up range between 2000 and $5,000. The other ones were either at MSRP, but the wrong type, or sold immediately at MSRP.

As someone who is quite a fan of laissez-faire economics I don't have a problem with dealerships marking things up, but I have a problem with them marking it up but Ford not seeing any of it. It doesn't go to the hand of the manufacturer that could alleviate the shortage through potentially paying for priority on chips, or increasing Manufacturing throughput, it just lines the dealership pockets.

That all said, I'm pretty content with the dealership experience I've had with Ford thus far, and it's done a little bit to soften my frustration.

Not exactly. "the guy" I responded to said this "If I told you that a dealer adds $1.5K-$2K to the cost of your car, you would still go to a dealership? "

I don't know how old you are, but The case you are making leaves out entire groups of people in demographics you may not be aware of: small towns that DON'T have mechanics that can EASILY do things for you like order factory parts for me and Seniors (50+ according to AARP). You think manufacturers are going to fall all over themselves doing training and certification of local mechanics (assuming the mechanics even want to or CAN get trained and certified) while you are doing everything possible to cut them out of the business model and eliminate their profits selling the vehicles, parts and service?

So you think 3 or 4 dealerships per state would be plenty? Would you say the same for Starbucks, the Post Office, gas stations, Motels, T-Mobile storefronts, etc.? Ever hear of Supply & Demand? Supply is low or restricted and demand goes way up. Simple. You complain about markup on the Santa Cruz- why do you think they do that? What if there was only 3 or 4 Hyundai dealers in your state, how high would markups be and how long would you wait to get a car?

Think outside the box a little more here and imagine what it could be like for people not in your age group that didn't grow up with technology or are not comfortable with it after a lifetime without and see no need for it in their daily lives or live in areas with limited internet and cell service and don't/can't live their lives through their phones. That's 10's of millions of Americans and potential customers.

 

[pointillistic]

Not exactly. "the guy" I responded to said this "If I told you that a dealer adds $1.5K-$2K to the cost of your car, you would still go to a dealership? "

I don't know how old you are, but The case you are making leaves out entire groups of people in demographics you may not be aware of: small towns that DON'T have mechanics that can EASILY do things for you like order factory parts for me and Seniors (50+ according to AARP). You think manufacturers are going to fall all over themselves doing training and certification of local mechanics (assuming the mechanics even want to or CAN get trained and certified) while you are doing everything possible to cut them out of the business model and eliminate their profits selling the vehicles, parts and service?

So you think 3 or 4 dealerships per state would be plenty? Would you say the same for Starbucks, the Post Office, gas stations, Motels, T-Mobile storefronts, etc.? Ever hear of Supply & Demand? Supply is low or restricted and demand goes way up. Simple. You complain about markup on the Santa Cruz- why do you think they do that? What if there was only 3 or 4 Hyundai dealers in your state, how high would markups be and how long would you wait to get a car?

Think outside the box a little more here and imagine what it could be like for people not in your age group that didn't grow up with technology or are not comfortable with it after a lifetime without and see no need for it in their daily lives or live in areas with limited internet and cell service and don't/can't live their lives through their phones. That's 10's of millions of Americans and potential customers.

As cars transition to EVs it is less business for the service department (as with ICE), more software upgrades from ford.

The car I have now, the dealer is horrible, too expensive outside of warranty. After several bad tries I actually found a mechanic who is competent, honest and reasonably priced There was no chance I will find this at dealerships .

 

[Old Ranchero]

As cars transition to EVs it is less business for the service department (as with ICE), more software upgrades from ford.

The car I have now, the dealer is horrible, too expensive outside of warranty. After several bad tries I actually found a mechanic who is competent, honest and reasonably priced There was no chance I will find this at dealerships .

point noted. There are always going to be good and bad experiences in any facet of modern life. I've had unacceptable experiences with a couple Ford service departments that claimed they couldn't work on the motor of my E-450 based class C motorhome (they lied) while other dealers were fine with it. Does that mean I should do away with the option for everyone without anything proven better to replace the service? Not a chance. I DO get great service on my F-150 at my 1 and only local Ford dealer. You don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

 

[notfast]

money of the most frequent issues we had was returns. So we would ask what the customer thought they needed, what they thought they wanted and how they used the computer, software, and printers, plus a bunch of other questions. When we sold them the computer they needed, vs the computer they thought they wanted, returns plummeted and profits went up. The salesman was there to assist in the buying experience to help make certain the customer was taken care of.
BTO at present does not allow for that. A good salesman is always useful to help make certain the assumptions being made by the customer fit the needs of the customer by directing them properly,

whst percentage of people have changed their order here in the forums, some more than once? A good salesman could have reduced those changes.

I absolutely agree. Being a former mechanic, I may know more technical details about a car than the salesperson, but the salesperson also attends product specialist training, and a good one knows the order guides like the backs of their hands. Therefore they can save you a few bucks, or get you more bang-for-the-buck, by knowing that buying item "Z" removes items "Y" and "X" but adds item "W", which is closer to the combination that you wanted.

As you mentioned, a great salesperson can identify a customer's needs vs. wants and steer them toward the product they need. Maybe they did all the Internet research on the Maverick and thought it was 110% the right product for them. They show up at the dealership to order one, and the salesperson sees that they really need a Ford Explorer but molded the Maverick to fit their mindset.

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