And I thought dealers were bad

[bombast]

I paid $248K for my house, Market value is well over $500K now. Am I a bad guy if I sell it at market valve? I do feel for people trying to buy off the lot, but, supply and demand are what drives our Country's economy. So it is hard for me to get upset at anyone doing this. Jealous because I didn't order multiple Mavericks and sell all but the one I want to keep. Absolutely!

Its really fun when people ignore important details.

If you buy a house, use it, and end up selling it for more, fine. If you buy a house for the express purpose of pumping the price and selling it 2 months later for a 30% markup to someone who's sole problem was he didn't get to the house before you did, you're a parasite.

EDIT: I should clarify that I don't have special knowledge of this guys situation. I don't know, maybe an alligator bit his leg off and he needs the money for medical bills. There's nothing wrong with that.

My suspicion is that isn't the case though. Regardless, my frustration is with scalping, which absolutely does happen (People here have admitted to it) and the people who defend it as some sort of economic driver when really it's just money extraction without providing value.

Sponsored

 

[pjlawton]

Dad sent me this this morning. Talk about market adjustment.

https://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/d/morristown-new-2022-ford-maverick-hybrid/7444931089.html

Here is one near me. It's current list price is more than I paid for my Area 51 Lariat FE. Crazy

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/ed08bf12-dca0-40cf-bbd6-d47aeedd0849/

 

[Turbias]

"market adjustment"
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...D&modelCodeList=FORDMAVER&clickType=spotlight

 

[PNWMaverick]

The rated MPG is 37. 42 is city, which he is clearly not stating.

42 MPG is the advertised MPG of the vehicle. It is and has always been a standard practice to advertise the higher number. With the whole asterisk disclaimer that discloses the combined MPG. This isn't new. At all. Not even a little.

It is also why they are able to advertise a $19,999 MSRP without disclosing the mandatory $1500 destination fee.

Have you ever heard the term 'scalping.'

If you want to have the scalping discussion, something not happening here, we can do that.

Intent is a major factor. That is universally accepted and outside of intent you simply don't have scalping. Here is why your assumptions are in bad faith, are likely wrong, what intention has to do with it, and why this isn't scalping.

• Your assumption of scalping would be that this person entered into the purchase process of the vehicle with the express intent of flipping it for a profit when values would rise. Something they wouldn't have been able to know ahead of time with any certainty. Not on the timescale it took to get the truck (see below).
  
  
• This is a hybrid, so we know it was ordered before October. Since it is an early hybrid it is very possible this is a June '21 or July '21 order! This person has been waiting ~6 months for their vehicle. Scalping is an act of opportunity and not about long-term assets. Scalpers are buying product, like tickets and game consoles, and then immediately flipping them while they know they can.
  
  
• At the likeliest time of order (based on vehicle configuration and availability of that) there was no reason to suspect Ford would cut off hybrid orders and the truck would have such a run on it. Even Ford themselves said the demand for the truck was far beyond any expectation. This ties back to the previous point about future values of trucks, especially this truck. There was no way of knowing ahead of time what it would do in terms of value.
  
  
• Single individual with a single item, selling it privately, after going through a ~6 month process. Not a Scalper flipping 45 PS5s or 12 front row tickets in front of the venue itself.

In short:

• Time
• Intent
• Product

This person ordered a product like the rest of us and waited months to get it. In that time the market went completely bonkers and they now find themselves in a position of making money on their extreme wait.

That. Is. Not. Scalping.

You are basically stating that this person, with intent, and thus certainty, predicted that a specific vehicle would appreciate in such a massive way that waiting ~6 months for it would be worth while. This would make the seller of this truck the greatest investing mind in the existence of the human race. Being able to precisely pick a massive return 6 months, or so, in advance, on a single specific product.

Just, stop.

*place holder for possible future edits*

Edit: Additional thoughts.

This person holds the title to the truck in their hand. Meaning, they had ~$25,000 in liquid funds to purchase the vehicle. It is safe to say that if this person had ~$25,000 liquid to invest, and with your assumptions the ability to accurately predict future returns, he wouldn't be investing in a Ford Maverick.

They would be putting that $25,000 into a host of other investments that, again, with his ability to predict the future, would realize far higher returns.

 

[Pickles]

I know someone who got 33k for their Hybrid XL, not even XLT.

There is one listed in los angeles for 38k.

Can you blame them though? If you had the opportunity to flip a brand new car and make ANY profit, why not?

Plus… for those of us selling used cars when our trucks deliver… we will also be wildly over charging lol nobody chargers less than they have to lol

 

[beef]

42 MPG is the advertised MPG of the vehicle. It is and has always been a standard practice to advertise the higher number. With the whole asterisk disclaimer that discloses the combined MPG. This isn't new. At all. Not even a little.

It is also why they are able to advertise a $19,999 MSRP without disclosing the mandatory $1500 destination fee.



If you want to have the scalping discussion, something not happening here, we can do that.

Intent is a major factor. That is universally accepted and outside of intent you simply don't have scalping. Here is why your assumptions are in bad faith, are likely wrong, what intention has to do with it, and why this isn't scalping.

• Your assumption of scalping would be that this person entered into the purchase process of the vehicle with the express intent of flipping it for a profit when values would rise. Something they wouldn't have been able to know ahead of time with any certainty. Not on the timescale it took to get the truck (see below).
  
  
• This is a hybrid, so we know it was ordered before October. Since it is an early hybrid it is very possible this is a June '21 or July '21 order! This person has been waiting ~6 months for their vehicle. Scalping is an act of opportunity and not about long-term assets. Scalpers are buying product, like tickets and game consoles, and then immediately flipping them while they know they can.
  
  
• At the likeliest time of order (based on vehicle configuration and availability of that) there was no reason to suspect Ford would cut off hybrid orders and the truck would have such a run on it. Even Ford themselves said the demand for the truck was far beyond any expectation. This ties back to the previous point about future values of trucks, especially this truck. There was no way of knowing ahead of time what it would do in terms of value.
  
  
• Single individual with a single item, selling it privately, after going through a ~6 month process. Not a Scalper flipping 45 PS5s or 12 front row tickets in front of the venue itself.

In short:

• Time
• Intent
• Product

This person ordered a product, like the rest of us, waited MONTHS to get it. In that time the market went completely bonkers and they now find themselves in a position of making money on their extreme wait.

That. Is. Not. Scalping.

You are basically stating that this person, with intent, and thus certainty, predicted that a specific vehicle would appreciate in such a massive way that waiting ~6 months for it would be worth while. This would make the seller of this truck the greatest investing mind in the existence of the human race. Being able to precisely pick a massive return 6 months, or so, in advance, on a single specific product.

Just, stop.

*place holder for possible future edits*

Its really fun when people ignore important details.

If you buy a house, use it, and end up selling it for more, fine. If you buy a house for the express purpose of pumping the price and selling it 2 months later for a 30% markup to someone who's sole problem was he didn't get to the house before you did, you're a parasite.

EDIT: I should clarify that I don't have special knowledge of this guys situation. I don't know, maybe an alligator bit his leg off and he needs the money for medical bills. There's nothing wrong with that.

My suspicion is that isn't the case though. Regardless, my frustration is with scalping, which absolutely does happen (People here have admitted to it) and the people who defend it as some sort of economic driver when really it's just money extraction without providing value.

Its called flipping a house, quite common and has nothing to do with a parasite. Good thing you are here to judge all of us.

 

[bombast]

Its called flipping a house, quite common and has nothing to do with a parasite. Good thing you are here to judge all of us.

If you interject yourself into a transaction and suck money out of it and provide nothing of value, you are a parasite.

Not all house flipping can be described as above. I know people who used to flip houses, and their value injection was fixing them up so they were actually livable and buyers didn't have to futz with them. That's great.

I have to say though, the house example is kind of funny, considering some-what recent accusations of large companies artificially raising housing prices to drive profits from flipping up. Fun stuff.

 

[beef]

If you interject yourself into a transaction and suck money out of it and provide nothing of value, you are a parasite.

Not all house flipping can be described as above. I know people who used to flip houses, and their value injection was fixing them up so they were actually livable and buyers didn't have to futz with them. That's great.

I have to say though, the house example is kind of funny, considering some-what recent accusations of large companies artificially raising housing prices to drive profits from flipping up. Fun stuff.

what about a trader on the stock market ?. Value ?.

 

[Jobst88]

No dealer fees huh.

 

[Chris_G]

Ya, paid off and clean title doesn't sound like money issues, and less than 500 miles seem unlikely that there was something not noticed initially but noticed while driving that made him decide he didn't like it.

Profit?

 

[bombast]

what about a trader on the stock market ?. Value ?.

Stock market is a far more complex subject, which I expect is why you've retreated to it. I don't want to be nasty, but you're acting a lot like Flat Earthers and NFT Evangelists, trying to drag people around by the nose through complicated arguments you don't have much faith in, in the hopes everyone just gets tired and gives up.

I'm not particularly in the mood for it (Flat earth wins again), so I'll just say that the stock market, like most speculation markets, are a societal tool. So far it has worked out well (Ok for most of us, very well for some of us, and not at all for more than we'd probably like to admit). There are loads of parasites and bad actors participating in this market, but its often hard to spot them until things go tits up, like in the housing market crash (Hey, we're back!) where mortgages were abused or the tech bubble where funds were grossly misallocated by people who probably knew better but didn't care.

 

[PNWMaverick]

If you interject yourself into a transaction and suck money out of it and provide nothing of value, you are a parasite.

More vitriol from you.

Care to explain how ordering something and waiting 6 months for it is "injecting" yourself into something?

Not all house flipping can be described as above. I know people who used to flip houses, and their value injection was fixing them up so they were actually livable and buyers didn't have to futz with them. That's great.

Which they in turn sold at a profit.

In other words; more than what the other person, who would have stayed living in it, would have paid. Had your friends not paid more than them so they can flip it. Thus inflating the transacted cost of the home and in turn inflating costs of homes around it.

You are acting as if your friends had some gift and were the only ones able to fix the home so that it is "livable", like they did some public service.

No. Your friends aren't special. If anything they did exactly what you are raging against, but with a product that determines someone's life, a house. Not a truck, a luxury item.

I have to say though, the house example is kind of funny, considering some-what recent accusations of large companies artificially raising housing prices to drive profits from flipping up. Fun stuff.

It isn't an accusation. Major financial entities have purchased a large number of Single Family Residence. Turning them into Single Family Rentals.

Anecdotally, as someone who is currently in the housing market, our home value doubled in 5 years, I can tell you that I am bidding against business 99% of the time. We just lost a bid on a house that we offered 25% above asking on. A contractor won.

You are clearly making an argument with emotion and not reason. You are spitting fire at someone who is selling their own possession.

 

[bombast]

It isn't an accusation. Major financial entities have purchased a large number of Single Family Residence. Turning them into Single Family Rentals.

I was referring to the accusations made against actual house flippers (Zillow comes to the top of my mind, though as I recall they did such a rotten job of it they closed their business entirely down).

I'm also aware of the rental issue, which is probably even worse (Luckly I don't have to deal with this in my area [Yet]. Our housing issues stem mostly from people transplanting themselves into traditionally poor mountain areas [Not strictly a new thing. Jumping over the Mason-Dixon for work is a shuffle older than I am] and building McMansions that ended contributing to a property value re-assessment that raised everyone's taxes. Amusingly, this sent more than a few McMansioners scrambling away.).

I'm not going to respond to the rest of it, as I don't think they respond to me as directly as you think, or at all. Either you're not conveying your points clearly or I'm not (Probably me, but either way further sputtering isn't going to help anyone).

I think my only further comment on the topic (Not directly to you PNWMaverick.) Is there seems to be a lot fewer libertarians here than I assumed from threads on parallel topics. And that's just delightful. Again, not a comment on anyone here particular, rather a comment on people who aren't particularly here.

 

[CoryDallas8123]

No dealer fees huh.

Yes! No dealer fees!! hahahaha

Sponsored