Who's going to tune for ethanol? Performance Tuning

[abjbrtd]

“Did IQ’s drop sharply while I was away?”

Anyways check where the thread is at. Ecoboost. Next, show me where we are looking at mileage. I said power. Alcohol is better at making it.

Have you tuned your 2.0T to run "20% ethanol"?
I run 89 octane, with a measurable 0 to 60 time improvement in my 1.6T.

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[DesertSweat]

Have you tuned your 2.0T to run "20% ethanol"?
I run 89 octane, with a measurable 0 to 60 time improvement in my 1.6T.

Ive tuned to 85% and have run low 11s quarter miles on other vehicles, And have tuned engines for others.

this thread is for discussing who plans on tuning their ecoboost maverick on higher percentages of ethanol to run more power

 

[fbov]

“Did IQ’s drop sharply while I was away?”

You brought up the hybrid, it's the fourth word in your first post. Perhaps it's short term memory that's lacking?

 

[DesertSweat]

You brought up the hybrid, it's the fourth word in your first post. Perhaps it's short term memory that's lacking?

I edited that out, I don’t think anyone will get the reference unless they are a cinephile, not meant to be an insult.

yes I mentioned that I am getting a hybrid. But posted the question in ecoboost. I guess I misinterpreted the audience and how many would understand what I’m talking about .

 

[balucipher]

Supras make massive power on E50. Considered doing it on mine but didn't want to deal with mixing to get the right mix every time

Has anyone made 2.0 E85 tunes in other vehicles?

 

[CatsupGladiator]

Ethanol may be more combust volatile than gasoline, but I wouldn't say it has more power than gasoline. If it had more power E85 would have taken off for the general public, being cheaper than gasoline and giving better mileage who wouldn't take that deal? In my simple test with a fleet vehicle a tank of E0 yielded a 15% increase in MPG over the E10 stuff I am forced to buy in my home county.

Tuning for E85 certainly could produce better performance in that the ECU can dump a more volatile fuel and a bunch of air and burn it all off rapidly. This may give you quicker times, more HP, ect. But your probably burning 3 - 4 times the fuel in that tune for that fuel.

I'm sure there is some chart or graph with energy densities of each fuel out there, haven't looked but gasoline has to have a higher density than ethanol, just like oak is more dense than pine, both will burn and produce heat, but one will do it alot longer than the other.

 

[DesertSweat]

Ethanol may be more combust volatile than gasoline, but I wouldn't say it has more power than gasoline. If it had more power E85 would have taken off for the general public, being cheaper than gasoline and giving better mileage who wouldn't take that deal? In my simple test with a fleet vehicle a tank of E0 yielded a 15% increase in MPG over the E10 stuff I am forced to buy in my home county.

Tuning for E85 certainly could produce better performance in that the ECU can dump a more volatile fuel and a bunch of air and burn it all off rapidly. This may give you quicker times, more HP, ect. But your probably burning 3 - 4 times the fuel in that tune for that fuel.

I'm sure there is some chart or graph with energy densities of each fuel out there, haven't looked but gasoline has to have a higher density than ethanol, just like oak is more dense than pine, both will burn and produce heat, but one will do it alot longer than the other.

It’s about 2/3 the energy density. So if you ran E100 you’d have to add about 1/3 more fuel then with c8 hydrocarbons.

But it’s knock resistance that you’re after when high performance tuning. Once you start shoving a whole lot of boost, a lot of timing, a lot of compression, tons of heat, fuel tends to want to ignite when it’s not supposed to.

hence why in terms of widely available pump, ethanol is superior. It allows you to make more power then 93 by a wide margin. For direct injection I’d even say better then toluene or leaded fuels.

you just have to account for a change in AFR and that’s it. So you will needmore fuel flow to compensate. After that, you’re on your way to power town.

 

[DesertSweat]

Supras make massive power on E50. Considered doing it on mine but didn't want to deal with mixing to get the right mix every time

Has anyone made 2.0 E85 tunes in other vehicles?

focus guys are making decent power and torque. Especially with larger turbos since the stock unit is more focused on low end torque due to small A/R of the turbine and compressor housings, and a small wheel.

 

[JASmith]

More power, but for how long? This idea that newer cars are all FFV rated is simply not true. All newer cars are designed to accommodate low ethanol blends like 10% without any problems during the warranty period, sure, but that doesn't mean they are rated for E85. Unlike gasoline, E85 has poor lubricating properties, and its going to be working harder to pump more fuel with the new tune, a combination that means that fuel pump is not likely to last as long. The corrosiveness is also likely to chew up your fuel filter if not designed for it. Everything from gaskets to coatings put on your fuel sensors and the like will get chewed up prematurely. The turbos are also sized for a specific RPM and boost range, and if you exceed that regularly with a retune its likely to fail prematurely as well, and in doing so it may end up barfing metal into your intercooler and good luck cleaning up that mess.

So while its not rocket science to figure out that you can run more boost on higher octane fuel, it doesn't take a lot of research to find out why that's going to be a bad idea and its certainly not cheap either which is why it never took off, and has even been dropped by most environmentalists that were keen on exploring any biofuel upon the realization that its just feeding big ag/Monsanto (now Bayer, but still operating the same minus the tainted brand name). From a practical standpoint, I'm not sure how you're even going to reliably switch between running E10 and E85 tunes since its impractical to drain your tank and even when showing near empty most tanks still have a bit of fuel in them, not all stations will offer E85 while traveling, and because the Mav is not a FFV won't have a ethanol sensor to adjust to whatever random E-rating blend is in there.

I'd wager most of the people doing this are leasing vehicles that they will "pump and dump", pun intended, on the next poor fool that has to actually try to make it to 100K miles without replacing a ton of components.

 

[DesertSweat]

More power, but for how long? This idea that newer cars are all FFV rated is simply not true. All newer cars are designed to accommodate low ethanol blends like 10% without any problems during the warranty period, sure, but that doesn't mean they are rated for E85. Unlike gasoline, E85 has poor lubricating properties, and its going to be working harder to pump more fuel with the new tune, a combination that means that fuel pump is not likely to last as long. The corrosiveness is also likely to chew up your fuel filter if not designed for it. Everything from gaskets to coatings put on your fuel sensors and the like will get chewed up prematurely. The turbos are also sized for a specific RPM and boost range, and if you exceed that regularly with a retune its likely to fail prematurely as well, and in doing so it may end up barfing metal into your intercooler and good luck cleaning up that mess.

So while its not rocket science to figure out that you can run more boost on higher octane fuel, it doesn't take a lot of research to find out why that's going to be a bad idea and its certainly not cheap either which is why it never took off, and has even been dropped by most environmentalists that were keen on exploring any biofuel upon the realization that its just feeding big ag/Monsanto (now Bayer, but still operating the same minus the tainted brand name). From a practical standpoint, I'm not sure how you're even going to reliably switch between running E10 and E85 tunes since its impractical to drain your tank and even when showing near empty most tanks still have a bit of fuel in them, not all stations will offer E85 while traveling, and because the Mav is not a FFV won't have a ethanol sensor to adjust to whatever random E-rating blend is in there.

I'd wager most of the people doing this are leasing vehicles that they will "pump and dump", pun intended, on the next poor fool that has to actually try to make it to 100K miles without replacing a ton of components.

People have been doing it years with success with very little needed. Personally I did it on an integra (oldest of all the cars) for 15 years before selling, a mazda for 8 years before selling, a BMW for 6 years before selling. All run on some higher blend of alcohol. The integra, I ran E85-E90, the mazda and BMW 40-60%. And I've helped others do it. Generally all that's needed is a fuel pump to run higher blends. Only issue you have on DI cars is running out of IDC room (injector duty cycle).

Manufacturers always run on the safe side.

Also generally you don't "barf" up turbos. Only issues you see is when someone loses their 10mm socket in the inlet. What generally happens is seals degrade faster and you start getting a lot of oil leaking by. But you don't see many turbos grenade themselves, generally turbine housings are very small which helps restrict maximum speed even when WGDC (wastegat duty cycle) is at 100%

I get it though, you're against alcohol as a fuel. But the fact is, alcohol is easy to make power on, and safer then pump. Because it's so much more resistant to pre-detonation makes it a wonderful fuel to tune aggressively.

 

[ledger9427]

Sheeeeeeeeeesh

Too many opinions from people who aren't planning on modifying they're Maverick, when the title of the post mentions "Performance Tuning"....

Ethanol is a great fuel source when you understand its capabilities.

I'll be interested in tuning for e85 in a few years, most likely when the factory warranty is up hehe

 

[06Warrior]

I’d like to see someone do it and see what the Maverick is capable of.

If someone does it please document it with lots of pictures.

 

[DesertSweat]

I’d like to see someone do it and see what the Maverick is capable of.

If someone does it please document it with lots of pictures.

I'll probably do it in a couple years when I trade in my HR-V. I miss going fast. Wife will have the hybrid, I'll have the ecoboost.

 

[06Warrior]

I'll probably do it in a couple years when I trade in my HR-V. I miss going fast. Wife will have the hybrid, I'll have the ecoboost.

You going FWD or AWD? I’d like to see a lowered Maverick with a tune.

 

[DesertSweat]

You going FWD or AWD? I’d like to see a lowered Maverick with a tune.

I have a while before I can trade in, need to pay off my loan first before I can think about trading in. I would love to, but mountain biking has taken hold of my life and wallet hence why I sold my last fast car.

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