Vehicle not starting

[Brick Row]

Depending on the tracked charge vs discharge amp hours logged - you may only get 5-10 min of minor charging level, then float charge.

The number of amps discharged after turnoff for the next 60 min because you woke all the modules back up - will be more than battery got charged.

At least 2 posters I saw tried doing that - one at work during lunch time for testing. IIRC it took like 90 min runtime to compensate and end up even. He did let it run all afternoon or morning once for 4 hrs to basically recharge the battery back up to best it would get.

5-10 min of hopefully charging 5A steadily declining to 1A, then the remaining 5-10 min below 1A to 0.5A.

Then 60 min max, of discharging 4A steadily declining to 0.5A for 20 min, then 0.5-0.3 for 20-30 min, then 0.3A for final 10-20 min.
Then it'll drop (or should) to 25-50 mA level.

Each time modules need to go back to sleep - provides an opportunity for a glitch to allow something not to. Now you got a big drain.

I wonder if Ford reads this stuff? They have to know we are not just making it up.
I know there must be a reason but why not let the battery fully charge like we used to do?
In rethinking this whole thing. when the truck 'starts' there is no longer the big battery drain to get the starter going-all that it seems to needs to do is to 'make' the circuit and in my case it did not. Now, once it is started I could see the problem when the ICE had to start but not at startup. I am guessing the EV battery was up to snuff but cannot be sure.
Odd, being an oldtimer, that when the charger was put to my truck, there was no 'noise'-the dash just lit up and played the hocus pocus letting me know it was OK to move! Soon after starting, the ICE took over so I assume something decided there was enough battery to start it.
Odd that the EV battery was probably OK but the 12v could not latch on to some of it to get going.

Do you know if there is a sensor that tells the level of battery charge? Heck if they can tell how good the motor oil is,the level of charge should be easy!

I need to find out more details on what type of battery is actually in the truck along with battery case dimensions. I amy be looking at an Optimum for it. Not being able to leave the truck at the airport while on vacation is not a good thing forcing me to use my wife's 2019 vehicle there and that does not bode well for the Maverick.

Thanks for your time.

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[Brick Row]

Found this and wonder if it is on target:

Maverick uses a high-voltage hybrid battery and a separate 12-volt battery. When the truck is running in its READY state, a DC-to-DC converter transfers power from the hybrid system to maintain the 12-volt battery. But that doesn't mean the 12-volt battery is continuously recharged while the vehicle sits in your driveway. Ford confirms that 12-volt battery depletion can occur even when the high-voltage battery is charged.

so there is no actual charging unit like an alternator present?

 

[MaverickDragon]

Found this and wonder if it is on target:

Maverick uses a high-voltage hybrid battery and a separate 12-volt battery. When the truck is running in its READY state, a DC-to-DC converter transfers power from the hybrid system to maintain the 12-volt battery. But that doesn't mean the 12-volt battery is continuously recharged while the vehicle sits in your driveway. Ford confirms that 12-volt battery depletion can occur even when the high-voltage battery is charged.

so there is no actual charging unit like an alternator present?

That's the fact, Jack.
There is no alternator and there are no accessories driven by d=belts because there are no belts.
No vehicle charges its batteries while it is sitting idle, so that's far from unique.

The problem with most modern cars is they suffer from the same two things:
1:
CAFE mileage standards which mean manufacturers go to extreme lengths to get ANY mpg improvements, which often results in sub-optimal battery charge profiles.
For the Maverick, the BMS system parameters can be changed to help address this.
2:
A plethora of electronic systems which use ongoing power from the 12 volt battery while the vehicle is parked.

Given enough elapsed time and the power load, especially when a vehicle is trying to "phone home" and repeatedly can't, a battery that wasn't fully charged to begin with will run out of power.
It's not just a Maverick issue.
Get a battery maintainer and you'll never have that problem, and the battery will last significantly longer, as lead acid batteries do NOT like being discharged.

My automotive AGM batteries last a decade or more because they live on a battery maintainers when parked, and with 4 vehicles to chose from, I have vehicles that can sit idle often.

If you have utility power available, attach pigtails to the power lug under the hood and the chassis ground and it will take all of a couple of seconds to hook it up after you park.

You can also get a solar powered maintainer - mine is mounted on my carport and I just plug in the Maverick when I park. I don't expect to need to replace its AGM battery for many years because keeping it in a full state of charge virtually eliminates sulphation, which is why batteries fail.

 

[Brick Row]

That's the fact, Jack.
There is no alternator and there are no accessories driven by d=belts because there are no belts.
No vehicle charges its batteries while it is sitting idle, so that's far from unique.

The problem with most modern cars is they suffer from the same two things:
1:
CAFE mileage standards which mean manufacturers go to extreme lengths to get ANY mpg improvements, which often results in sub-optimal battery charge profiles.
For the Maverick, the BMS system parameters can be changed to help address this.
2:
A plethora of electronic systems which use ongoing power from the 12 volt battery while the vehicle is parked.

Given enough elapsed time and the power load, especially when a vehicle is trying to "phone home" and repeatedly can't, a battery that wasn't fully charged to begin with will run out of power.
It's not just a Maverick issue.
Get a battery maintainer and you'll never have that problem, and the battery will last significantly longer, as lead acid batteries do NOT like being discharged.

My automotive AGM batteries last a decade or more because they live on a battery maintainers when parked, and with 4 vehicles to chose from, I have vehicles that can sit idle often.

If you have utility power available, attach pigtails to the power lug under the hood and the chassis ground and it will take all of a couple of seconds to hook it up after you park.

You can also get a solar powered maintainer - mine is mounted on my carport and I just plug in the Maverick when I park. I don't expect to need to replace its AGM battery for many years because keeping it in a full state of charge virtually eliminates sulphation, which is why batteries fail.

OK, but that brings up another item....unless I misread your note, the
"No vehicle charges its batteries while it is sitting idle, so that's far from unique. " portion says the battery is not being charged while idling-if that is the case I guess there may be a sound reason for that but not from my end. The EV battery does not need to be used -unless backing up-until the ICE is shut down so why not let it do something positive?
Since the EV battery apparently 'charges' the 12V when it is being used why can't the EV battery lend a hand when the 12 Vis dead? There would seem to be a way to bypass a dead 12V when the EV unit is capable of helping. Maybe a switch or two need to be turned off or on to get the vehicle started...with all the 'smarts' in the truck, it seems like one piece is missing...

Too many quesitons

 

[MaverickDragon]

By idle, I mean it's not powered. Not that the engine is running at idle.
The 12 volt system controls the computers, so the HVB doesn't make decisions, and in order to assess if the HVB could help, other circuitry would likely be involved.
Ensuring the battery is charged and maintained will be a lot easier than attempting to change how the HVB system works. It sounds simple, but likely it isn't.

 

[Brick Row]

Well, I am not getting involved in a trickle charger for everyday vehicles. I have two older 50s vehicles that just start when I want to use them on dry warm days and yes they have optimim batteries that are turning over engines with way more needs than these mavericks. However ther is no drain and they are both equipped with battery 'off' solenoid switches mainly for safety purposes. I do not trickle charge them on a regular basis-maybe in mid January for a month or so but they are not driven every day hence not a real pain. Every day would just, well, make me buy another vehicle! My wife drives my truck too and then either/both of us can forget to unhook. Nope.

Is there a chance the battery location has something to do with them not allowing it to go to full charge? Seems nonsensical for that to be the way to go-why not charge it to the fullest knowing about the various low draining pieces that lurk?

Not sure where to go with this but will leave our 2019 vehicle at the airport when leaving on vacation!
I appreciate all your help, advice and patience.

 

[HeyBales]

Well, I am not getting involved in a trickle charger for everyday vehicles. I have two older 50s vehicles that just start when I want to use them on dry warm days and yes they have optimim batteries that are turning over engines with way more needs than these mavericks. However ther is no drain and they are both equipped with battery 'off' solenoid switches mainly for safety purposes. I do not trickle charge them on a regular basis-maybe in mid January for a month or so but they are not driven every day hence not a real pain. Every day would just, well, make me buy another vehicle! My wife drives my truck too and then either/both of us can forget to unhook. Nope.

Is there a chance the battery location has something to do with them not allowing it to go to full charge? Seems nonsensical for that to be the way to go-why not charge it to the fullest knowing about the various low draining pieces that lurk?

Not sure where to go with this but will leave our 2019 vehicle at the airport when leaving on vacation!
I appreciate all your help, advice and patience.

Don't have to charge it everyday. Once a month if you really don't drive it much - right before or during some days its going to sit longer than normal.

I'm sure absolutely the location is the reason.
In the cabin with people.

But as already commented - there have been mid-2000 vehicles where the ECM controlled the load cycle on the alternator for charging the battery.
Or as the intent was, not charging it. Thereby decreasing load on the ICE, improving mpg, improving power, ect.
And those, like the Maverick EB that does exactly the same thing, have the battery under the hood.
And an assumption of what size it is for that load cycling to be correct.

Add the fact a driver could go cheap and put as small a battery as possible in it's place.
(when you start looking for new - it's size H4 AGM you want for drop in for hybrid, which you already have)

I always thought it was kinda funny how many people I would help with a jump start (now jump pack) that clearly had an undersized battery from probably not even the cheapest place - but their last dead battery they needed one right now, that place was close, so they went for smallest cheapest option.
(and I usually observed the battery wasn't making it that long, may have had warranty, but I'm betting they spent more in the long run anyway, rather than get proper sized good battery)

Anyway, I'm sure some lawsuits or why else, but those small batteries in a charging system that had assumptions it was bigger - would have been overcharging it.
Old days with vented batteries - blew off water, maybe shorted battery.
Sealed batteries - would blow a valve for just such a reason.
Our sealed batteries under the seat has a vent to outside for just that reason.
If a goofball put in a smaller battery - are they attaching the vent hose correctly? Punching out a block, or putting a block in the other side?
Whole lot of expectations from drivers that can't read the overhead sticker on their windshield that says their next oil change was 2k miles ago.

It's why some vehicles now, if they detect the battery was disconnected, meaning it could have been changed - will not start until a bi-directional scanner is used to program in the battery stats. Or worse, laptop with maker specific software, more likely.

Yes - I'm sure we have to thank members of the group that caused warning labels and pictures to be put on plastic bags - to not put it over your head...


That being said, and Mavster's viewing of stats on his new 26MY - show that the likely initial usage of the truck is NOT going to ever charge the battery up to 92% Ford special SOC (max the strategy will go for).
And I've seen some simple logic improvements in their strategy that would work better at figuring out what size battery is there and how hard can it charge.

You'll notice your manual for Specs and battery says something interesting, that the EB's have always had, and now the 25/26MY have.
How important? Or are they still playing it failsafe for the goofballs out there?

 

[HeyBales]

I wonder if Ford reads this stuff? They have to know we are not just making it up.
I know there must be a reason but why not let the battery fully charge like we used to do?
In rethinking this whole thing. when the truck 'starts' there is no longer the big battery drain to get the starter going-all that it seems to needs to do is to 'make' the circuit and in my case it did not. Now, once it is started I could see the problem when the ICE had to start but not at startup. I am guessing the EV battery was up to snuff but cannot be sure.
Odd, being an oldtimer, that when the charger was put to my truck, there was no 'noise'-the dash just lit up and played the hocus pocus letting me know it was OK to move! Soon after starting, the ICE took over so I assume something decided there was enough battery to start it.
Odd that the EV battery was probably OK but the 12v could not latch on to some of it to get going.

Do you know if there is a sensor that tells the level of battery charge? Heck if they can tell how good the motor oil is,the level of charge should be easy!

I need to find out more details on what type of battery is actually in the truck along with battery case dimensions. I amy be looking at an Optimum for it. Not being able to leave the truck at the airport while on vacation is not a good thing forcing me to use my wife's 2019 vehicle there and that does not bode well for the Maverick.

Thanks for your time.

Just for understanding on your Push button start.

When you go to On/Accessory mode, Start button no brake - the HVB is connected.
But the truck is not Ready/Started.
But the HVB is powering the 12V system, and charging the 12V battery.
If the HVB gets down to 30% SOC - it stops charging the 12V battery to conserve it's charge.
It'll warn you to turn truck off or start it.
Soon after it'll stop powering the 12V system and the 12V battery takes that load.
Now it's a race.
If the 12VB gets low enough - you'll get notice stuff is powering off and it will, then truck off.
If the HVB gets low enough first - you'll get final warning to start or turn off, then it will go off.

You'll notice several points there is really no different than any other vehicle you've had if you went to Acc key mode and left it on.
Really old vehicles would just drain the 12VB - and then that turns everything off. Now no starty of vehicle.
Not so old vehicles would turn 12V system off when battery got low enough. So at least you could start vehicle.

So really - there is nothing different here, except you have a HVB that depending on it's charge - can really keep that 12V system going for a long time. But the whole thing will shut off to allow a next start, hopefully, to recharge the battery.

Difference with hybrid and that HVB.
If you actually started it - again running the 12V system and charging the 12V battery.
When HVB reaches 30% SOC, the ICE will turn on to get back to 40% SOC. Repeat.
Not sure what happened on newer model years with the eventual warning of truck running, it'll turn off at some point.

There is a BMS for both batteries using sensors for both.
Can't measure Voltage during charging and discharging though, at least accurately.
So after it decides an initial SOC calculated on starting Voltage and at least temp adjustment (and some other values like resistance) - it merely does what the solar industry has been doing for ages - tracking the Amp hours charging and discharging thru the sensors. Of course it needs to know the actual Ah size of the battery - so more accurate for the HVB, discerned for the 12VB with less accuracy.
Until such time as there is a long enough off time, and new a startup to readjust the SOC% figures.

So yes it knows decently. And the 12VB sensor is pretty accurate. On mine the Voltage is underreported by 0.1 V always. Which enters into the math for SOC%, which is used to determine what actions take place when. But the amps (2.2 below) are good.

 

[Brick Row]

Just for understanding on your Push button start.

When you go to On/Accessory mode, Start button no brake - the HVB is connected.
But the truck is not Ready/Started.
But the HVB is powering the 12V system, and charging the 12V battery.
If the HVB gets down to 30% SOC - it stops charging the 12V battery to conserve it's charge.
It'll warn you to turn truck off or start it.
Soon after it'll stop powering the 12V system and the 12V battery takes that load.
Now it's a race.
If the 12VB gets low enough - you'll get notice stuff is powering off and it will, then truck off.
If the HVB gets low enough first - you'll get final warning to start or turn off, then it will go off.

You'll notice several points there is really no different than any other vehicle you've had if you went to Acc key mode and left it on.
Really old vehicles would just drain the 12VB - and then that turns everything off. Now no starty of vehicle.
Not so old vehicles would turn 12V system off when battery got low enough. So at least you could start vehicle.

So really - there is nothing different here, except you have a HVB that depending on it's charge - can really keep that 12V system going for a long time. But the whole thing will shut off to allow a next start, hopefully, to recharge the battery.

Difference with hybrid and that HVB.
If you actually started it - again running the 12V system and charging the 12V battery.
When HVB reaches 30% SOC, the ICE will turn on to get back to 40% SOC. Repeat.
Not sure what happened on newer model years with the eventual warning of truck running, it'll turn off at some point.

There is a BMS for both batteries using sensors for both.
Can't measure Voltage during charging and discharging though, at least accurately.
So after it decides an initial SOC calculated on starting Voltage and at least temp adjustment (and some other values like resistance) - it merely does what the solar industry has been doing for ages - tracking the Amp hours charging and discharging thru the sensors. Of course it needs to know the actual Ah size of the battery - so more accurate for the HVB, discerned for the 12VB with less accuracy.
Until such time as there is a long enough off time, and new a startup to readjust the SOC% figures.

So yes it knows decently. And the 12VB sensor is pretty accurate. On mine the Voltage is underreported by 0.1 V always. Which enters into the math for SOC%, which is used to determine what actions take place when. But the amps (2.2 below) are good.

First, what scanner is that shown in the picture?
then why should I care if the HVB is just about dead? Shouldn't the 12V actually start the car and begin recharging as soon as the truck gets up to speed and then slows down to begin/start the HVB recharging system?
I almost need a flowchart to understand these things but then again, I should not have to understand it as, with all the electronic BS there should be systems that understand it and post it for me.
Is there a status indicator of the 12v battery?
I almost would not mind if there was a switch that could be turned off so the vehicle could be running on either EV or ICE in case of failure of the other.

I was hoping that after 5 or 6 years of making these things most all issues would be solved.
I also read where there have bee 12V battery issues resolved via software updates-I need a way to see what level the truck is at and now see on the app updates are scheduled M-F@1AM-now if I can find the level the truck is at that would be good.
Maybe I need another app or different equipment-I just do not want to interfere with the warranty I paid dearly for.

just sayin'...

 

[HeyBales]

First, what scanner is that shown in the picture?
then why should I care if the HVB is just about dead? Shouldn't the 12V actually start the car and begin recharging as soon as the truck gets up to speed and then slows down to begin/start the HVB recharging system?
I almost need a flowchart to understand these things but then again, I should not have to understand it as, with all the electronic BS there should be systems that understand it and post it for me.
Is there a status indicator of the 12v battery?
I almost would not mind if there was a switch that could be turned off so the vehicle could be running on either EV or ICE in case of failure of the other.

I was hoping that after 5 or 6 years of making these things most all issues would be solved.
I also read where there have bee 12V battery issues resolved via software updates-I need a way to see what level the truck is at and now see on the app updates are scheduled M-F@1AM-now if I can find the level the truck is at that would be good.
Maybe I need another app or different equipment-I just do not want to interfere with the warranty I paid dearly for.

just sayin'...

Ford ain't alone with the effects to 12V batteries.
Either on new vehicles, but especially in hybrids.

No 12VB indicator as in the days of a gauge indicating charge. Oh - those were the days my friend - we thought they'd never end ....
There is the replacement dummy light - for when the charging system has a problem.
Not what we know is a problem - what they think is a problem.

You know what happens if the driver was given a switch to limit the truck to one system or another - they'd break something by forgetting or misusing.
Sport or Tow modes are your closest option for ICE on until stopped.

But the way the eCVT works - the whole thing MUST work together.
You can't have ICE only - there'd be no gearing, no transfer of power to the wheels.
You can have EV only - for a short bit, keep the power request and speed low to extend it's life.
1 poster has tested this with fuel runout already.
That's why you care if the HVB is dead - if truly dead - no ICE worky.

And the 12V battery does start charging when you start the truck to Ready mode.
I was responding with that standard process descriptions, due to your comment wondering if the ICE had a problem because it didn't come on at startup, but later.
Nope - with 12V battery dead, your prior comment wondering if makes a circuit was correct.
Just describing it in comparison to prior vehicles we've all driven.
Really not much different when put into the same context.
And actually - system protects better against purposeful battery drains than older cars. Like lights on, radio on, sitting there, ect.

You got the updates for the big known parasitic drains that might infrequently cause a battery drain.

There has been no change to their desired charging strategy. As you read posts - 25MY started the AGM batteries being OEM, 22-24MY came with FLA which was much worse, and they've gotten warranty AGM as of summer '25.

That scanner shot is Forscan on Android, thru a BlueTooth OBD2 adapter.
Car Scanner app has similar ability, other apps too probably.

 

[Brick Row]

Ford ain't alone with the effects to 12V batteries.
Either on new vehicles, but especially in hybrids.

No 12VB indicator as in the days of a gauge indicating charge. Oh - those were the days my friend - we thought they'd never end ....
There is the replacement dummy light - for when the charging system has a problem.
Not what we know is a problem - what they think is a problem.

You know what happens if the driver was given a switch to limit the truck to one system or another - they'd break something by forgetting or misusing.
Sport or Tow modes are your closest option for ICE on until stopped.

But the way the eCVT works - the whole thing MUST work together.
You can't have ICE only - there'd be no gearing, no transfer of power to the wheels.
You can have EV only - for a short bit, keep the power request and speed low to extend it's life.
1 poster has tested this with fuel runout already.
That's why you care if the HVB is dead - if truly dead - no ICE worky.

And the 12V battery does start charging when you start the truck to Ready mode.
I was responding with that standard process descriptions, due to your comment wondering if the ICE had a problem because it didn't come on at startup, but later.
Nope - with 12V battery dead, your prior comment wondering if makes a circuit was correct.
Just describing it in comparison to prior vehicles we've all driven.
Really not much different when put into the same context.
And actually - system protects better against purposeful battery drains than older cars. Like lights on, radio on, sitting there, ect.

You got the updates for the big known parasitic drains that might infrequently cause a battery drain.

There has been no change to their desired charging strategy. As you read posts - 25MY started the AGM batteries being OEM, 22-24MY came with FLA which was much worse, and they've gotten warranty AGM as of summer '25.

That scanner shot is Forscan on Android, thru a BlueTooth OBD2 adapter.
Car Scanner app has similar ability, other apps too probably.

One thing at a time for me--your comment:

" And the 12V battery does start charging when you start the truck to Ready mode." I thought the EVB only charged when the truck is coasting and if so, when the truck is/was initially ready, we are immediately draining the EV battery,correct? More later, unfortunately for you.

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