UAW expands strike…Ford safe…for now

[Timothyd]

Wind and solar farms going up all over the place here.

Wind power is very heavily subsidized.

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[fossil]

Wind power is very heavily subsidized.

According to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 – the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income. In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry.May 3, 2023

what's one more pig at the trough

 

[Old Ford Guy]

Given the amount of money needed today to have the same lifestyle as autoworkers had back in the 50's; 60s and 70s $65/hr might barely be enough for a single income household with a stay-at-home spouse/partner and kids to get by on today.

It sounds like a lot, sure, but only because the trend for wages has been TERRIBLE since the 80s. For 40+ years, lower and middle class incomes have been horribly suppressed. We're ALL terribly underpaid compared to what we COULD be making if it weren't for "supply side" economics.

top down class warfare has been so sucessfull that the masses have been 'brainwashed ' to the point of being grateful for any crumbs falling from the Bosses plates.

during the widely acknowledged 'golden era' for the middle class after WW2 thru the Kennedy administration the middle class exploded. one worker could go and do their 40hrs a wk and be able o feed a family and keep a roof over their heads...top income tax rates were as high as 90% and the economy was BOOMING! now 2 people working like dogs can barely make ends meet.

please try to put the Korporate Koolaid about exhorbitant demands from workers down for a moment and try to embrace the old fashioned concept that if you work 40hrs a wk in America that should be enough to pay the rent and feed your kids. that social contract between Labor & Capital should be restored IMHO.

over 100yrs ago Mr. Henry Ford raised wages to $5.00 a day when most folks didnt take home $10 p/wk! AND shortend the workday to 8hrs p/day while also trimming the work week to 5 days a wk. at the time it was common for most folks to work 10hrs or more a day 5 days a wk with a 1/2 day on Saturday! and at the same time he started to use the competitive advantage his happier and now more productive employees provided to LOWER the price of his vehicles!!! sales exploded of course and the rest is history as they say. true story folks. long story not short enough, all working folk deserve a 'living wage'

 

[Old Ford Guy]

Wind power is very heavily subsidized.

not nearly as much as the existing fossil fuel industry is!

 

[son of a ..sven]

And a Tesla battery has 4,000-7000+ cells.

Model Y SR has 828 cells and 67.3 kWh capacity.”Jun 23, 2023



The Tesla Model Y's 2170 battery pack contains 4400 individual cells which require four spot welds each. By contrast, the 4680 pack contains just 830 cells with two welds per cell – requiring approximately 940 less welds – leading to the reduced production costs

The S has 7100, the X has 7920

 

[son of a ..sven]

not nearly as much as the existing fossil fuel industry is!

DOE's Loan Programs Office (LPO) finances large-scale renewable energy and efficient energy projects, including $1.69 billion in loan guarantees to four commercial-scale wind projects.


In the United States, taxpayers pay( subsidies) about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry.

 

[Vaportrail]

Check this out-

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/25/ford-ev-battery-plant-china-00118037

 

[jonathan1994]

I wonder if this will make my Carvana offer higher?

 

[Timothyd]

Apples and oranges. We live a lot better and are way less thrifty consumers than we used to be. The unions (I belong to one) are now big business and more like corporations. Much of my dues goes to Washington to support fat cats and lobbyists. Most of the auto worker jobs are unskilled and they are free to find other jobs. I agree that CEOs make too much but so do lawyers, politicians, doctors, union officials, etc.

Robots and automation is very very expensive and complicated and the only reason it's worth it is, unlike the auto workers, it's reliable and trustworthy.

 

[Timothyd]

I wonder if this will make my Carvana offer higher?

I bet it might. I'm glad I bought a Mav off the lot while I'm waiting for my ordered one.

 

[Old Ford Guy]

I bet it might. I'm glad I bought a Mav off the lot while I'm waiting for my ordered one.

me too !! matter of fact there's a whole thread about folks that already own a Mav but have also ordered a '24.

 

[Timothyd]

me too !! matter of fact there's a whole thread about folks that already own a Mav but have also ordered a '24.

I could have bought anything but I think the Maverick holds its value the best. I searched and I grabbed the ONLY new Maverick available. There were some used ones, mostly out of state, but the owners wanted big bucks. Even for high milage '22s they wanted more than they paid. I'll consider myself fortunate to come close to breaking even this winter when my Lariat comes in.

 

[SLINGSHOT]

CIO President Walter Reuther was being shown through the Ford Motor plant in Cleveland.
A company official proudly pointed to some new automatically controlled machines and asked Reuther: “How are you going to collect union dues from these guys?”
Reuther replied: “How are you going to get them to buy Fords?”

 

[JASmith]

According to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 – the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income. In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry.May 3, 2023

what's one more pig at the trough

You're confusing net taxation vs net subsidy.

If dude A pays $500K in taxes and get $100K in tax deductions/subsidies for doing some "green" stuff or charity donations or whatever else the government wants to encourage people to do, then A is still -$400K poorer, and A would be much richer if the government didn't exist. That is heavy net taxation.

If dude B pays $50K in taxes and get $75K in tax deductions/subsidies for the same, that is a +$25K net subsidy towards B, and B would be poorer if the government didn't exist. Yet some say, "ooooh, look, the A-dude above got more tax subsidies than this B-dude did!" not understanding its about net paid vs given.

A lot of people get confused by this, especially considering that most of the subsidies they are counting as toward the fossil fuel industry like BP and Shell are when those energy companies are investing in green energy products including wind, solar, ethanol, and biodiesel and the like in the first place, making the numbers ludicrous.

Fact is, fossil fuels are one of the most heavily net TAXED commodities there are, which is why countries or states with a lot of fossil fuels can often fund their governments sometimes almost entirely based on the massive NET TAX revenue put on the fossil fuel companies, like Alaska for example.

 

[fossil]

You're confusing net taxation vs net subsidy.

If dude A pays $500K in taxes and get $100K in tax deductions/subsidies for doing some "green" stuff or charity donations or whatever else the government wants to encourage people to do, then A is still -$400K poorer, and A would be much richer if the government didn't exist. That is heavy net taxation.

If dude B pays $50K in taxes and get $75K in tax deductions/subsidies for the same, that is a +$25K net subsidy towards B, and B would be poorer if the government didn't exist. Yet some say, "ooooh, look, the A-dude above got more tax subsidies than this B-dude did!" not understanding its about net paid vs given.

A lot of people get confused by this, especially considering that most of the subsidies they are counting as toward the fossil fuel industry like BP and Shell are when those energy companies are investing in green energy products including wind, solar, ethanol, and biodiesel and the like in the first place, making the numbers ludicrous.

Fact is, fossil fuels are one of the most heavily net TAXED commodities there are, which is why countries or states with a lot of fossil fuels can often fund their governments sometimes almost entirely based on the massive NET TAX revenue put on the fossil fuel companies, like Alaska for example.

lol, what a hot stinking load

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