Science not speculation - engine break in

[HenryFord]

I know people speculate that because the manual does not mention break in or break in oil changes that they must already break in those engines or it no longer matters. Here is an idea, how about check the oil to find out? Regardless of motives or intentions testing will tell the rest of the story. Big shock, The Motor Oil Geek shows the numbers on his daughters new Toyota. Facts speak louder in my book than, I have always done it and never had a problem. Everything is fine until it isn't.

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[inline_five]

Wow! Interesting! Now, the real question is, does it matter?

Wouldn't the oil filter stop all particles harmful enough to cause wear on the motor?

 

[Blue_Max]

The manual for my '24 Ecoboost said it had a 1000-mile break-in period, and (vaguely) described driving conditions for that period, but made no mention of oil.

 

[HenryFord]

Wow! Interesting! Now, the real question is, does it matter?

Wouldn't the oil filter stop all particles harmful enough to cause wear on the motor?

He gets into that in some of the other videos about particle sizes and limitations to the conventional spin on filters in order to make sure they flow enough oil. This is why they used to tell people to drop the break in oil early. Looks like the first two short miles changes get rid of most of this stuff. He ends up showing that in the next video he did on the daughters Toyota how the wear metals decline and start to fall within "normal" ranges.

 

[Cherokee]

If your brand new engine is clogging up your oil filter to the point of it going to bypass mode
Even at 10,000 miles your engine is detonating and your early oil change will do nothing to stop it.

I made my first Ecoboost oil change at 3,000 miles only because I wanted full synthetic in.
My next change will be at 9,000 then 15,000 then every five after that.
Even then I’m wasting good oil, I should go to 7,500.
But twice a year works out to every 5,000

 

[Cherokee]

Wow! Interesting! Now, the real question is, does it matter?

Wouldn't the oil filter stop all particles harmful enough to cause wear on the motor?

Of course it does but besides that it gives owners good piece of mind to do it really early. Especially us old school guys who remember engines before CNC and old school roach oil like Castrol of the seventies and eighties, guaranteed to clog up any engine long before 100,000 miles.
Us old school guys will not accept that engine manufacturing and oil tech has advanced to the point of 10,000 miles service intervals.
And 15,000

Again, I took a 2,7 Ltr Toyota taco to
528,000 trouble free miles with 10k oil change intervals Had a buddy out do me in the same truck.
We were severe duty drivers.
80-90,000 a year,
Central Florida heat and humidity,
Heavy traffic and interstate runs.
800-1200 in cargo and at the same time
A 2,000 pound enclosed iridium trailer for more than 150,000 miles of our half million plus.
Flawless engine service and no early oil changes. Both of us did our first oil changes at 10,000 miles.
I ran Mobil 1 full synthetic
He ran jiffy lubes cheapest roach old, again 10k intervals.

We all did high miles on the job, 18 of us,
Even the dodges did 350,000 miles,
The Chevrolets, not so good past 250,000
Fords 350-450,000

 

[HenryFord]

A few points on this post. #1 great video, and I did go over 1000 miles a bit but getting it changed Wednesday by the dealer. WHY? So it is documented in vehicle history. #2 Lake Speed was the best NASCAR driver name ever, followed closely by Dick Trickle. #3 This points out why I would never buy a lease turn in vehicle.

Yes, they are churning and burning those lease vehicles. I have seen some of those leases where they have written it into the contract that they have to perform the oil changes and maintenance and if you don't the slap you with more fees. They are trying to keep these things from getting ridden hard and hung up wet, but it clearly is just being treated like a commodity with a limited lifecycle. I don't know how that math works out for anyone on the business end of this to be honest.

Anyone wanting to buy a used vehicle really needs to get that Carfax or similar report to understand its history.

 

[AlsMaverick]

Of course it does but besides that it gives owners good piece of mind to do it really early. Especially us old school guys who remember engines before CNC and old school roach oil like Castrol of the seventies and eighties, guaranteed to clog up any engine long before 100,000 miles.
Us old school guys will not accept that engine manufacturing and oil tech has advanced to the point of 10,000 miles service intervals.
And 15,000

Again, I took a 2,7 Ltr Toyota taco to
528,000 trouble free miles with 10k oil change intervals Had a buddy out do me in the same truck.
We were severe duty drivers.
80-90,000 a year,
Central Florida heat and humidity,
Heavy traffic and interstate runs.
800-1200 in cargo and at the same time
A 2,000 pound enclosed iridium trailer for more than 150,000 miles of our half million plus.
Flawless engine service and no early oil changes. Both of us did our first oil changes at 10,000 miles.
I ran Mobil 1 full synthetic
He ran jiffy lubes cheapest roach old, again 10k intervals.

We all did high miles on the job, 18 of us,
Even the dodges did 350,000 miles,
The Chevrolets, not so good past 250,000
Fords 350-450,000

Speak for yourself. I'm old school old and don't buy in to that.

 

[inline_five]

He gets into that in some of the other videos about particle sizes and limitations to the conventional spin on filters in order to make sure they flow enough oil. This is why they used to tell people to drop the break in oil early. Looks like the first two short miles changes get rid of most of this stuff. He ends up showing that in the next video he did on the daughters Toyota how the wear metals decline and start to fall within "normal" ranges.

Had I known this info I probably would've done a change at 1,000 miles myself just for peace of mind. I did my first one around 3,500 IIRC.

Ultimately, it really makes almost no difference on the longevity of our engines IMO.

 

[HenryFord]

To be fair, being an old dog myself, old dogs can learn new tricks. We didn't have the tools and access to this much information back in the day. The rules and economics of it didn't make much sense to spend this much time ruminating it. Everyone knew about machining and break in and knew the routine. You didn't need a lab to tell you what was obvious. Today we have labs to once again reinforce that the old practice is still relevant.

Many things have improved, some things have just changed without much improvement, some things have just become complicated without much benefit. It is a mixed bag.

I think everyone is learning a lot and lots of experimentation going on. Progress doesn't always mean forward movement! I just watched The Motor Oil Geek's latest video on Mobil 1 Classic. In that video he clearly lays out why the oil of 30 years ago, 20 years ago, and developments today are vastly different than what we knew from back in the day and why that is the case. I recommend everyone check that out. He also did some good oil history videos that help everyone understand how vastly different todays oil is from that of many moons ago. They really are good stuff.

 

[HenryFord]

Had I known this info I probably would've done a change at 1,000 miles myself just for peace of mind. I did my first one around 3,500 IIRC.

Ultimately, it really makes almost no difference on the longevity of our engines IMO.

Well honestly don't beat yourself up too bad. Even the dealers tell you to run it and not worry about it. I am guilty myself of listening to them with my HD truck. I knew better so it is on me.

I am waiting on my Mav to be built and I won't overlook the opportunity to make sure to purge the break in oil. A couple of short miles oil changes and it should settle into a normal level of wear. He has also mentioned that if you change oil viscosity, brand, etc that you will want to run a couple of changes through it to have it settle down and show you what is really going on in any lab tests. So that is something to also keep in mind.

 

[heady]

They forgot to present the wear data between higher levels of fine circulating wear metals and lower levels of circulating wear metals, the science part of the video is missing. Oil analysis shows you how much is in the oil, but that's not actionable information until you prove with a teardown wear inspection that there is more measurable wear with an extended drain vs. a short drain. They didn't even show the cumulative total mass of wear metals between a long drain and a short drain from 0 miles on the same model engine over the same total engine hours of operation between two engines - which would be another way to approach the same problem. More data is needed than what was supplied to draw any useful conclusion.

 

[f1jim]

I followed Lake Speed jr. recommendations and did my first oil change at around 800 miles. Did the second one at around 3,000 miles later. Did an oil analysis at each change and just as he said, it shows the wear metals high but dropping. Next oil change at 7500 and I will also do an analysis on that one. Should have minimal wear metals at that point and I can hope for a long lived engine with regular oil and filter changes. It is a bit reassuring to have his personal comments on the state of my engine based on my used oil. How much longer engine life will it mean to get those wear metals out of the engine faster? I felt the early oil changes were like purchasing some insurance. Cheap enough to not even think about it. Only issues for me are those 15 da** torx screws to get to the filter and drain plug. Makes me want to permanently remove that fiberboard panel. I look at it and wonder just how much efficiency I get with that installed. Since it's a street truck it really doesn't protect much especially since everything is tucked up anyway. A fumoto drain valve and I feel like it would make regular oil changes a breeze. Even for an old guy like me.

 

[HenryFord]

Only issues for me are those 15 da** torx screws to get to the filter and drain plug. Makes me want to permanently remove that fiberboard panel. I look at it and wonder just how much efficiency I get with that installed. Since it's a street truck it really doesn't protect much especially since everything is tucked up anyway. A fumoto drain valve and I feel like it would make regular oil changes a breeze. Even for an old guy like me.

Yes, I like the benefits of the aero under the vehicle with the under body covers, but what a pain in the whatchamacalit dealing with the panels. It would be nice if they just had some smaller panel opening flaps that are quick access for the routine maintenance.

 

[Cherokee]

Bought a 1996 2WD Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0L straight six engine designed in 1957 by AMC. Jeep bought all those engines, all converted to EFI.

It was a lease with 21,000 miles on it and paperwork showing only TWO oil changes both at the dealer. One at 7,500 and the next at 16,000 miles.

I kept it on roach oil its whole life and did 5,000 mile service intervals.
The rear main seal failed at 394,000 miles.
An honest mechanic told me a new rear main seal would fail within 100 miles because the crank bearings were worn out. The crank would vibrate and kill the seal in short order.

That’s when I stopped doing super early oil changes.

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