Long McArthur $7500 over MSRP on XL Maverick

[SDMavguy]

Because it's not a used car. It's a new car that the dealer was willing to sell to the original buyer for MSRP. They lose nothing if they sell to a secondary buyer at MSRP, as proposed by the MANUFACTURER.

That's not really answering the question. The only person that sets the price of a product is the person who buys it. If no one buys a product over MSRP, then no one will sell it for over MSRP. The consumer is setting the price. Normal economics. Don't like the economics don't buy the product.

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[Vols44]

What he said...

As long as folks keep paying an ADM then dealers will keep charging it.

This many times over. I will continue to snub my nose at dealer in my area with 8k ADM's. One snow covered vehicle has been on a lot for a month. According to a third party website Mavericks have an average of a four day lot stay.

 

[maningr]

That's not really answering the question. The only person that sets the price of a product is the person who buys it. If no one buys a product over MSRP, then no one will sell it for over MSRP. The consumer is setting the price. Normal economics. Don't like the economics don't buy the product.

I totally understand that. And.. it is answering the question. So... by your logic. Because the dealers are getting people to pay the MSRP+$10000, ALL people should pay that, including the custom orders. Yes, I realize there's the price protection thingy that prevents that. But it's completely what you are implying.

 

[maningr]

This many times over. I will continue to snub my nose at dealer in my area with 8k ADM's. One snow covered vehicle has been on a lot for a month. According to a third party website Mavericks have an average of a four day lot stay.

that third party website, is also counting the custom orders as every single one of those gets listed on the lot.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

Taking the health implications of the pandemic out of the equation, The difference here is a phone book or a corn cob are not reasonable substitutes. A Toyota, in the other hand, is a reasonable substitute for a Ford. Bidets are not particularly common here, and I would argue that most people would not consider taking TP away as reasonable. If all cars were withheld and someone said you should use a bicycle, I would agree. But what we are talking about here is the price of Charmin increasing, but AngelSoft is still a viable, reasonable choice in a pinch.

To be clear, I dislike how dealers are marking up cars, and I don't think it's a fair practice, but there are alternatives, and we do live in a mixed-market economy where this can occur.

You sir are incorrect. Costco were selling adaptors for your toilet to spray water as a substitute for toilet paper for less then $100. and as far as the Maverick ..there is no comparison. it's the only new 42MPG truck that was cheap out there. Give me one comparison to compete with that..so the Charmin vs Angelsoft isn't close....and as far as a necessity...the corn cob and newspaper/telephone book ave been substituted in a situation that called for it...

 

[SDMavguy]

I totally understand that. And.. it is answering the question. So... by your logic. Because the dealers are getting people to pay the MSRP+$10000, ALL people should pay that, including the custom orders. Yes, I realize there's the price protection thingy that prevents that. But it's completely what you are implying.

No, not implying that at all... Sorry if it came off that way.

 

[Naranjita]

And in truth, very few people can actually pay ADM's. Because you cannot finance them. Most auto loans will only fund up to 110%-120% of MSRP. Including taxes and other fees. So people are paying cash to cover those ridiculous markups. Or losing a bunch of trade in dollars.

So they are wasting lots of very hard earned money. A fool and his money quickly part ways.

People just need to stop paying it. The ADM's would drop to something reasonable nearly overnight. Dealers can't afford to let inventory sit around. They need these things to move. Their cash flow is restricted. If it just sits there with no activity, they'll know it's too high. But we are such an instant gratification society, it won't take long for someone with the money to come along and want it now at any price. It only takes one. Until the next one.

We are not victims. We are in control. But we just are not collectively exercising our buying power. With such low inventory, it's lowest common denominator consumer we are fighting.

 

[Vols44]

that third party website, is also counting the custom orders as every single one of those gets listed on the lot.

Which is fair because I've called about retail orders listed on Ford or a dealer's site and most are waiting for the customer to pick up that week and a few were refused and most likely ADM'd. I think the lot occupation time averages out in the end.

 

[Vols44]

And in truth, very few people can actually pay ADM's. Because you cannot finance them. Most auto loans will only fund up to 110%-120% of MSRP. Including taxes and other fees. So people are paying cash to cover those ridiculous markups. Or losing a bunch of trade in dollars.

So they are wasting lots of very hard earned money. A fool and his money quickly part ways.

People just need to stop paying it. The ADM's would drop to something reasonable nearly overnight. Dealers can't afford to let inventory sit around. They need these things to move. Their cash flow is restricted. If it just sits there with no activity, they'll know its too high. But we are such an instant gratification society, it won't take long for someone with the money to come along and want it now at any price. It only takes one. Until the next one.

We are not victims. We are in control. But we just are not collectively exercising our buying power. With such low inventory, it's lowest common denominator we are fighting.

ADM's include financing rates, extended warranties and documentation fees. I am aware of finance acquisition fee and finance markup limits. The finance related ADM's are addressed by the ECOA.

 

[lonewolf904]

I think some profit is ok obviously they have to make money. And MSRP is above what they pay Invoice. So $1-2K above MSRP seems reasonable to me, but when the price of an XL goes to the price of an XLT and even a Lariat in this case, that is price gouging. The customer will never sell that vehicle for that price after driving off of the lot. IF they do, then there are two idiots that bought that truck.

I think little over msrp for a buy now no more than 1k but I tried to buy a Santa Cruz and dealer told me 5k adm on the cheapest one I told thanks for he Honest and I gave him the one finger salute on my way out lol

 

[PNWMaverick]

You can't justify an ADM when the buyer is captive audience. If we could purchase directly from the auto manufacturer than you could justify dealer ADMs on their inventory. As going to the dealer would be an option and not a requirement.

However, we can't purchase from the manufacturer and that makes us a captive audience and immediately negates a large portion of our negotiating ability.

 

[ImaginaryNumbers]

You sir are incorrect. Costco were selling adaptors for your toilet to spray water as a substitute for toilet paper for less then $100. and as far as the Maverick ..there is no comparison. it's the only new 42MPG truck that was cheap out there. Give me one comparison to compete with that..so the Charmin vs Angelsoft isn't close....and as far as a necessity...the corn cob and newspaper/telephone book ave been substituted in a situation that called for it...

So.. a few counterpoints:

1st, Ma'am not sir, but no way for you to know that so not gonna hold that one against you.

2nd, I don't need to know about your bathroom predicaments. (joking, of course)

3rd, I think I can understand your train of thought, and I see where you're going. You're talking wants, not needs. Let me try phrasing it this way instead.

The argument of price gouging based on your hand sanitizer or TP would come down to it being the only small truck on the market, or someone taking all brands of small truck and hiking prices on all of them. Charmin ain't the only brand here.

The Ford mav may be what you want, but it's not the only roll of TP (or model of bidet) available, it just happens to be the one you have your eye on. Charmin may have fancy ripple ridges that really get up in there (i.e. your mpg rating) that other brands don't have, but that doesn't mean they aren't reasonable comparisons. Hike the cost of Charmin, you give up the ripples for something that gets the job done anyway in a similar fashion. i.e. the angelsoft or Santa Cruz, which provides the same function at a similar price point (small truck starting in low-mid 20s). Or insert any other car/truck/suv that reasonably meets the needs of the consumer.) Every individual feature of a product doesn't give it it's own economic class. We are talking new compact truck market

And dont say TP is a want, you could use a phone book, but who would consider that a *reasonable* alternative. Not me, thats for sure. Last thing i want are paper cuts.

If you want a better arguement, A phone book is not a product made for that purpose and therefore isn't reasonably an alternative. A truck is made to be a truck


4th, My Economics degree says I know at least a little of what I'm saying. 🤏
Hell my license plate is Econ Nrd.
although I will say, I am not so conceited as to believe i'm always on the correct side of a discussion. It's been a few years since I truly flexed my econ muscles, and if someone wants to correct me, please do! I welcome it


5th, for the love of whatever God you believe in, no one bring used cars into this analogy. I refuse to continue with the TP analogy if it comes to that.

6th, my adhd medication definitely wore off while I was typing this, so if it's off topic, please just chuckle and move along to your relevant discussion.

 

[FakeCowboy]

You can't justify an ADM when the buyer is captive audience. If we could purchase directly from the auto manufacturer than you could justify dealer ADMs on their inventory. As going to the dealer would be an option and not a requirement.

However, we can't purchase from the manufacturer and that makes us a captive audience and immediately negates a large portion of our negotiating ability.

LOL more ridiculous arguments. Take an economics course, please. There are plenty of people out there who WANT a Maverick who seemingly don't think twice about paying a 10k ADM on a Maverick. Do you whine when you get outbid on something on ebay too? Why should a dealer sell you something for less if someone is willing to pay more? What makes you special? If you walk into a dealership at the same time as someone else and there's one Ford Maverick for sale, should these laws you believe exist and apply to new cars allow you to buy it even though they're willing to pay a lot more than you?

 

[James L. Harrison]

Ok, maybe I mis-read that. I knew it was definitely not allowed on customer ordered vehicles to raise the price at all, but thought there was still something on lot vehicles above MSRP a certain percentage.

Every dealer around Tampa that I contacted assured me they would order me a Maverick for MSRP. Upon examination I found that every one of them had and ADM [dealer fee] that ranged from $800 to $1300.

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