Hybrid engine performance question

[Gus]

How about a K & N air filter

Just the sticker alone is +5 hp.

If you add 4 stickers its +20 hp.

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[BILLNOROVILLE]

Forgive me if this has been asked, and for not knowing but...

If I order the hybrid, and I'm not happy with the acceleration, or overall power, are there mods that can be done to make this more powerful? I'm not looking to spend tens of thousands on modifications, or an engine swap, but I know you can tune the ecoboost...

If you know you can tune the ecoboost why get a more complicated Hybrid designed for peek fuel efficiency with enough adequate power. Choose Wisely or be unhappy. Adding more power always comes with a price.

 

[fbov]

are there mods that can be done to make this more powerful?

... beyond that you are talking sorcery.

This is a great answer!

The Atkinson cycle is engineered to optimize efficiency at the expense of torque...not power.

Other way round... at the expense of power. As you note, power is torque x RPM, but the price of efficiency is slow RPM rise: it revs slowly compared with a 100% fill engine, or a 140% fill EcoBoost. Remember, the operational model is the "stationary engine" whose RPM is determined by power needs, not speed and gearing.

If you are concerned with passing power. Skip the aggravation and get the 2.0 EB.

Why? In the Escape, passing is where these drivetrains are near parity. EB is for 0-60 lovers. without question, but much less difference in normal driving. Except for using ~half the fuel.

 

[Gmood1]

This is a great answer!

Other way round... at the expense of power. As you note, power is torque x RPM, but the price of efficiency is slow RPM rise: it revs slowly compared with a 100% fill engine, or a 140% fill EcoBoost. Remember, the operational model is the "stationary engine" whose RPM is determined by power needs, not speed and gearing.

Why? In the Escape, passing is where these drivetrains are near parity. EB is for 0-60 lovers. without question, but much less difference in normal driving. Except for using ~half the fuel.

Having owned or driven the hybrid or turbo counterparts of certain vehicles. All of which had small displacement 4 cylinder engines.

There's no way I could confuse either. Whether 0-60 or 45-75 mph.

Now that's not to say certain hybrids don't have oomph. There are plenty of them at twice or three times the cost of a hybrid Maverick that do.

But you're going to pay for it.

Several of those professional reviews released recently, mention passing power as one of the differences in the two powertrains they noticed. There's no free lunch, either way you go. My opinions are based on my real world experiences.

Not against hybrids at all. But I'm not going to try and convince anyone you're going to get the same driving experience when comparing the two in the Maverick's price range.

That being said, lately I've been drooling over the new 2022 Toyota Tundra Hybrid. Now that's a beast!

 

[FirstFord]

You don’t need to change the cams in newer engines with variable valve timing. The Tacoma goes from Otto to Atkinson by adjusting the intake valve timing. Whether the 2.5 has VVT or not, I don’t know. I assume most modern engines do.

Would make sense to ditch the cost and complication of VVT in the eCVT Hybrid since you're already addressing the shortcomings of the Atkinson Cycle with the traction motor.

So I'd bet the cam drive is fixed.

 

[Spiffster]

Correct me if im wrong but that that 2.5 liter Atkinson cycle engine has been in the Ford lineup since at least as far back as 2009 (Ford Escape Hybrid). If there are no mods available now, there will likely never be. The engine is well proven though with Taxis running these things to half a million miles(!). Only performance mod you can really do is some weight reduction... do you really need those back seats?

What about that 94kW motor though? No way is the 1kWh battery pack gonna be able to provide that kinda output, but this is not a plugin so anything bigger would be pointless. In any case were talking about software mods where things get much more complicated.

 

[A_Turkey_Sammich]

I expect the hybrid will be perfectly adequate in those situations. At least pretty typical vs the average typical late model vehicle on the road anyways. Keep in mind it wasn’t all that long ago that those kind of numbers were getting into performance car numbers (whether it be engine alone like optional v6 in a typical sedan or getting into straight up mildly sporty models) vs the norm they are lately, with many of those cars still on the road.

If power is of such importance on the list of priorities…like others have said, just get the ecoboost. If you just have some concern about being under powered due to the hybrid, I don’t think there is any cause for alarm there.

 

[MLowe05]

This concern over power is overblown. The Maverick Hybrid is posting times much quicker than your common Prius, and significantly quicker than really common sedans like Sentras, Corollas, etc. 7.5-8.5 0-60 is plenty.

I have a good amount of seat time in a 10-second Prius and even that is adequate.

 

[stoptothink]

Neither am I. But I still like to be able to merge into traffic, or pass a semi-truck on the highway.

0-60 times have ranged from 7.9sec to 8.6sec, that was a "performance vehicle" 25yrs ago; what makes you think you won't be able to merge into traffic? As many others have said, if you're looking for something that is going to put a smile on your face when you mash the go-pedal, get the eco-boost; it'll take a lot of $ to get similar performance with the hybrid, if it's even possible. Based on a few Reddit threads, the aftermarket for performance parts for the 2.5L engine is essentially non-existent.

 

[oljackfrost]

Simple. Buy the hybrid, if you don’t like the acceleration sell it and buy an Ecoboost. The amount you might lose in depreciation is small compared to the high price of trying to modify the hybrid powertrain.

 

[mamboman777]

I'd like to go on the record saying that trying to change the valve timings in the Atkinson to try to get an Otto sounds like a really bad idea to me. I think the compression ratio would end up being way to high for the designed block and everything else. May as well just try to replace the ICE completely.

I think that you world have better luck tuning the motor/generators to contribute more. If you do that, though, could stress everything else in the transmission and drive train. That is assuming you can hack the system without bricking your truck.

Side note, what's a better auto term for bricking? I use brick to describe a phone that won't boot. A car that won't boot is a...

 

[Swami37]

This has to be a joke.

 

[Jakb]

I think being honest about what class the Maverick really sits in engine wise will help. While the Mav looks like a truck, the drivetrain really is in the MidSUV, small truck and Crossover territory.

Maverick hybrid: 191 hp and 155 lb-ft of torque.
Maverick Ecoboost: 250 horsepower and 277 pound-feet
Subaru Outback: 182 horsepower and 176 lb-ft of torque
Nissan Rogue: 181 hp and 181 lb-ft of torque
Honda CR-V: 190 horsepower and 179 lb-ft of torque.
Mazda CX-5: 187 horsepower and 186 lb-ft of torque
2003 2.3L Ranger: 143 Horsepower and 154 Torque
Toyota 2.7L Tacoma: 159 horsepower and 180 lb-ft of torque


While i wouldnt call any of these performance vehicles, they don't struggle to pass.

Under a full load the Mav hybrid might be a little slow, but that's no different than my Ranger

 

[Redneck Garage]

I think we are all bored waiting on a hybrid - 3 pages of replies on modding a hybrid truck not delivered yet........ Ford products you "might" be happy with now for acceleration - Lightning F150, Mach-E , and if you wait a few years the all electric Maverick will most likely be introduced. These models will throw you back in the seat as far as acceleration - then there is a Tesla. You aint gonna buy a 20k hybrid and then get a race car.

 

[fbov]

Having owned or driven the hybrid or turbo counterparts of certain vehicles. All of which had small displacement 4 cylinder engines.
...
That being said, lately I've been drooling over the new 2022 Toyota Tundra Hybrid. Now that's a beast!

I've only driven two hybrids, Ford Gen 3 and Gen 4, and neither are small I4s. I am familiar with those designs, are placed in the class of "weak hybrid" based on motor size and battery capability. The Fords are both are "strong" hybrids. I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.

Unless you get this Tundra Hybrid (also available from Ford since January). Replacing the torque converter with an electric motor creates a different class of "hybrid," one that has minimal payback. Both Ford and Toyota use big turbo motors that dominate fuel economy and performance.

... So I'd bet the cam drive is fixed.

You'd lose. Here's what the VVT is doing (contours are exhaust/intake stroke). A 10% intake reduction is at the top, and the maximum efficiency is in the 50% reduction circle.

... What about that 94kW motor though? ...

Yeah, there's no way to give it that much power. But it's not the traction motor's fault; the charging motor capacity was not increased when the traction motor was upgraded.

Doing a 0-60 run in the Escape is a multi-step process.
Stopped-to-rolling: all EV from the HVB since the inverter can respond almost instantly.
Rolling-to- about 40mph: all EV with power from the charging motor, driven by ICE (series mode)
About 40 mph and up: Hybrid mode - HVB driving traction motor added to ICE driving the wheels (parallel mode).

In series mode, ICE generates all the current for the traction motor. My HVB power readout goes to zero for a bit. Motor torque is current-limited so it'll take all the ICE can give, up to maximum torque. All acceleration from rolling to ~40 mph is coming from the torquier 94kW traction motor, using power generated by the ICE. Above 40 mph*, the ICE gearing becomes favorable, and it's power is added to the wheels, switching the traction motor to HVB power. That's parallel mode, ICE and traction motor both providing torque from independent power sources.

I think being honest about what class the Maverick really sits in engine wise...

Really? All I see are specs, and it's incomplete. Complete specs include the traction motor, rated for 173 lb.-ft. torque. The true maximum torque in parallel mode is more like ICE + 25%* of motor when the latter is running off the HVB. That's a peak of 205 lb.-ft. In an honest comparison, the Maverick Hybrid bests every car you listed for HP and most for torque without considering parallel mode. At minimum... some hybrids have a short-term "boost mode."

Whether it's a mid-SUV, small truck or crossover, Maverick Hybrid would appear to be among the most powerful, with a significant upgrade available.

* I never see more than 35kW regen or HVB drive power, so I conclude that's the AC/DC/AC inverter limit. HVB power delivery is limited compared with the charging motor, to ~1/3 traction motor rating. Knowing that torque falls above the torque peak, I then derate it to 25%. The torque peak estimate is based on generic synchronous AC motor torque curve shape and a 125 mph max speed (limited by traction motor redline).

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