Hybrid AWD Rumors.....TRUE!?

[Automate]

I would prefer the independent rear suspension because it resembles the suspension design from the 21st century

The FWD Mavericks do have an independent rear suspension. Directly from the Ford specs

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...22-Ford-Maverick-Technical-Specifications.pdf

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[Darnon]

That's unlikely how a Maverick AWD hybrid would work.

Unlikely based on what? Only the Lincoln Corsair has the eAWD setup and that's because it's a PHEV which can't fit a driveshaft because of the significantly larger battery pack.

 

[Gonzo chris]

The FWD Mavericks do have an independent rear suspension. Directly from the Ford specs

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/product/2022/maverick/pdf/2022-Ford-Maverick-Technical-Specifications.pdf

It's not a real IRS like the AWD has

 

[Automate]

It's not a real IRS like the AWD has

Yes, it is a true independent suspension. No, it's not as complex as an AWD's. But that is only due to the extra complexity required for suspensions designed for driven wheels. Doesn't mean it is worse at handling the bumps and turns typical for most vehicles.

 

[710-oil-614]

That's unlikely how a Maverick AWD hybrid would work.

No clutch. No driveshaft to the rear.
You put a separate electric motor on the rear. Power on demand. Power by wire only. Yes, electric only to the rear. But like EVERYONE says, you only need the rear sporadically. You don't power the rear continuously... even in mud and snow.

That is not how Ford's hybrid system is designed and works in the Escape.

Don't overthink this - if an AWD Hybrid is coming to the Maverick it will be lifted directly from the Escape.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Yes, it is a true independent suspension. No, it's not as complex as an AWD's. But that is only due to the extra complexity required for suspensions designed for driven wheels. Doesn't mean it is worse at handling the bumps and turns typical for most vehicles.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to compare it myself. I have read a few people out here who have driven both saying that the AWD handles and rides a little better, but if it's not that big a difference then it's not a deal-breaker

 

[Automate]

Thanks for the info. I'll have to compare it myself. I have read a few people out here who have driven both saying that the AWD handles and rides a little better, but if it's not that big a difference then it's not a deal-breaker

In general 4WD/AWD suspensions have more ground clearace and more wheel travel than FWD suspensions. This gives them better off road capablility but generaly worse ride and cornering ablility than a FWD suspension optimized for street use.

 

[Automate]

That is not how Ford's hybrid system is designed and works in the Escape.

Don't overthink this - if an AWD Hybrid is coming to the Maverick it will be lifted directly from the Escape.

I wouldn't be so sure. They could also drop in the AWD Hybrid powertrain from the Corsair. Same 2.5L eCVT and electric rear wheel drive in a C2 platform.

Without the drive shaft you get a lot of benefits:
• Less weight
• Less mileage lost
• More flexibility
• Easier wheel torque control
• More room for future PHEV batteries

 

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Most of your assumptions are not true in reality though.

The hybrid design makes less heat so less cooling is required. The battery is hardly ever used while towing. The battery is primarily used for accelerating and decelerating and is not used for steady-state towing.

120 horsepower is/was plenty to tow 5,000 pounds with budget trucks of two, three decades ago and is plenty today.

If you are towing in Indiana or Mississippi the experience is different. In the USA I live at 3200' and camp/explore at 5000' to 8000'. In Mexico it's different, I only live at 2000', but of course I don't have a camper to tow down there. So my comments and experiences are based on that reality.

Battery not used during towing becuase it's already drained doing the takeoff and accelerating with a load.. Hence only the 161hp available and of course the much lower torque. At elevation the motor is making less power than that.

Regarding 120hp... I suspect you've not read my additional comments about towing approx 2100lbs, with another couple hundred lbs in the bed, at 8k elevation with my 156hp rwd Frontier around serveral national parts in Colorado and Utah for two weeks. Ask the folks lining up behind me, 10 deep, when we were climbing mild hills if they thought I was enjoying the experience.

Us pulling into a campsite in Kanab Utah. You can't begin to imagine how absolutely exhausted I was pulling this rig from the AZ/Sonora border to southern Utah. Just no fun with no real power.

I understand folks love their hybrids and they definitely excel, economically, at many missions. However to anticipate that an AWD Hybrid (161hp/155lbs) will perform as well as an EB AWD (250hp/277lbs) at towing loads of up to 4k, is a settup for disappointment.

 

[The Real Maverick]

If you are towing in Indiana or Mississippi the experience is different. In the USA I live at 3200' and camp/explore at 5000' to 8000'. In Mexico it's different, I only live at 2000', but of course I don't have a camper to tow down there. So my comments and experiences are based on that reality.

Battery not used during towing becuase it's already drained doing the takeoff and accelerating with a load.. Hence only the 161hp available and of course the much lower torque. At elevation the motor is making less power than that.

Regarding 120hp... I suspect you've not read my additional comments about towing approx 2100lbs, with another couple hundred lbs in the bed, at 8k elevation with my 156hp rwd Frontier around serveral national parts in Colorado and Utah for two weeks. Ask the folks lining up behind me, 10 deep, when we were climbing mild hills if they thought I was enjoying the experience.

Us pulling into a campsite in Kanab Utah. You can't begin to imagine how absolutely exhausted I was pulling this rig from the AZ/Sonora border to southern Utah. Just no fun with no real power.

I understand folks love their hybrids and they definitely excel, economically, at many missions. However to anticipate that an AWD Hybrid (161hp/155lbs) will perform as well as an EB AWD (250hp/277lbs) at towing loads of up to 4k, is a settup for disappointment.

Never did I say EB and Hybrid were equal.

But you are on the right track about managing expectations. Big rigs can pull 80,000 lbs with 350 horsepower. They are not the fastest rigs on the road doing it.

It's not about horsepower most of the time, for most of the things (I) want to do with a truck. The horsepower number gets way too much attention.

Usually the steeper the road, the lower the speed limit so things usually work out.

The hybrid will tow 4k up a 10% grade at 45 mph. The EcoBoost will tow 4k up a 10% grade at 65 mph. I am content with that compromise since 10% grades with 65 mph speed limits are pretty rare. And getting 45 miles to the gallon on flat roads is very common.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Torque is more of a concern than horsepower.

The most difficult condition for the hybrid will be SLOW SPEEDS under 15 MPH and steep at the same time.

For driveways and steep sections of a mile or less, the battery has you covered for that extra torque needed. At 15 mph and above the gas engine's torque really begins to pull hard.

Top end and bottom end will be weak(er) in the hybrids when towing. In the middle, say 15 mph to 55 mph you are not going to be lacking anything. I'm not guessing. I have towed a huge amount of things a huge amount of miles.

 

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Never did I say EB and Hybrid were equal.

No, but implied when you said you'd tow 4k, which is the limit of the EB. I won't ever be towing more than 4k with my Mav EB.

Big rigs can pull 80,000 lbs with 350 horsepower.

Indeed. Torque comes into play, which the EB has plenty of, even at lower rpm

The hybrid will tow 4k up a 10% grade at 45 mph.

Optimistic. I would have been pleased to maintain 45mph under those circumstances. Hauling about 500lbs (combination of cargo and cap weight) and towing about 2100lbs (combination of camper dry weight and all of the gear inside it), I would have never realized that level of performance under those grade conditions with 156hp / 171lbs of naturally aspirated power (no doubt both figures greatly reduced due to elevation).

All things are possible, but not all things are advantageous. You'll get the benefit of everyone in that long line behind you signing to you that you're #1 as they pass you at the first opportunity...

These are the figures for the Ford Escape, the platform from which our Mavericks (and Bronco Sport) were borne:


What Is the Ford Escape Towing Capacity by Engine?
The 2023 Ford Escape comes available in four different engine options, each of which will have a different towing capacity. What is the Ford Escape towing capacity for each available engine? To see which engine option is ideal for your Branson driving needs, take a look at the towing capacities for each engine option below:

• 2.0L EcoBoost®: 3,500-pound towing capacity
• 1.5L EcoBoost®: 2,000-pound towing capacity with FWD or AWD
• Hybrid 2.5L Hybrid iVCT Atkinson-Cycle I-4: 1,500-pound towing capacity
• Plug-In Hybrid 2.5L Hybrid iVCT Atkinson-Cycle I-4: 1,500-pound towing capacity

MY2024 is the same... I saw no additonal allowances for towing capacities for the Hybrid when adding either the tow package ($495) or the AWD. So, while this does not represent what we should expect for the Maverick Hybrid now can tow 2K), I wouldn't anticipate the AWD will increase, osea, I wouldn't expect a 4K tow option.

BTW, the front passenger seats that are available in the Top of the line Escape ST-Line Elite look wonderful! Keeping my eyes on junkyards.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I'm not contradicting anything.

Ratings are ratings.
Capabilities are capabilities.
Ratings are not the same as capabilities.

EcoBoosts will remain better.
Hybrids will remain very capable.
Even if under-rated.

 

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Ratings are ratings.
Capabilities are capabilities.
Ratings are not the same as capabilities.

yeah they're just all numbers, not reflecting any serious study...

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/

you're a real maverick...

Although I've sparred a bit with you (I'm conservative with pushing my trucks, you are a bit more of a risk taker, so different confidence/comfort levels), the honest truth is that I am really curious to hear feedback from folks once they've driven and towed with the new Hybrid AWD setup. Probably less than a percent or so hit in fuel economy in most driving scenarios, but the rest will be all upside! More capability when you need it. They're going to sell a ton of them if it's priced reasonably (*est hybrid $1500 + awd $2200 ballpark).

Regardless of how they rate the Hybrid AWD, I'm sure with the better rear independent suspension and the ability to shift some power to the back wheels on take-offs, that it will make it much more enjoyable to tow with than the standard Hybrid FWD.

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