Ford has forgotten who the customers are

[Turtle]

All this discussion about dealer allocations makes you wonder if it is possible to not get your confirmed ordered Maverick (Hybrid or not) in the 2022 MY primarily due to dealer allocations. Say if you put your confirmed order in around early August from a small dealership that had around 7 to 10 orders and your number 8 that walked in. Add the fact that now its November and they still have not had one allocation on ordered vehicles yet. Is that possible?
[/QUOTE
Yes and you may not get it in 33 with South America in the loop

Sponsored

 

[mav_can]

It doesn't make much sense to look at the destination charge and act as if that is the actual average cost of delivery for the total sum of all Mavericks in a given model year. It makes even less sense to then use that number by itself to argue that Ford should be shipping Mavericks out based on FIFO approach. A base Maverick costs $21,495, period. That is the number they calculated in order to get whatever profit they are seeking for this vehicle. Ford is using a $1,500 destination charge just so they can make the claim the car starts below 20k. If Ford used a lower destination charge the Maverick's base price would have gone up an equal amount.

Well I’m giving Ford the benefit of the doubt and not assuming they’re illegally inflating the destination charge to cover the price of the vehicle. They’re already getting sued for it on the Bronco.

https://fordauthority.com/2021/07/class-action-lawsuit-filed-over-ford-destination-charges/

By the way I’m not saying high destination charge should mean FIFO, I just mean that given the delays and ordering issues we’re not getting value out of it and it’s a money grab (an illegal one by YOUR description).

My vehicle is built and shipped and on its way to the dealer btw.

I’m super excited for my truck and have been active since I ordered in June, I own a Ford Mustang and think Ford is doing a great job making the vehicles people actually want and understanding the market, but I’m not going to blindly defend a company for every action they take. Like I said in a previous comment, imported luxury vehicles like BMW (of which I also drive), cost less in destination shipped halfway across the globe, even in this market.

 

[bobcat]

Fine. Then tell us who they are so we can not do business with them. And please figure out how to use the forum.

Sorry. My apologies to you for NOT using this thread correctly. Apparantly Im not the Genius you are.

 

[UncleDuke]

I used Ken Graff Mesquite Ford, they have a larger dealership up in St. George UT>

 

[Old Ranchero]

Oh well the TV and media are always right so I retract all my previous comments. Delaers are completely necessary and provide many thousands of dollars of value to the end customer by rolling a vehicle off a truck and peeling some plastic. They are so valuable in fact that they can just take that MSRP which they were already making profit at and add $5k to the price because of all their valuable service they added to it.

try expanding your thinking a little bit? Once car makers go full electric- you aren't going to be fixing it yourself and your favorite "mechanic" Tito down at the corner gas station isn't going to be factory trained to provide even minimal required servicing, much less do warranty repairs or fix drivetrain or PCU issues. So yeah, dealers will still provide a service as they do now. It's about more than just outsmarting them on the original sale price.

 

[jc888888888]

The reason you paid below MSRP was because Ford overproduced vehicles and had to lower prices. This will be the same whether you buy direct or from a dealer. A more transparent pricing model is good for consumers. There will still be competition among manufacturers to keep them honest. When two differnt people can walk into a dealer and walk out paying two different prices for the same vehicle, there is a problem.

I am not here to argue but .in the 70,s and 80.s .if a dealer did not have a vehicle you like you ordered one from the dealer and got it from Detroit in 2 weeks. but you lost your negotiated power .when something is sitting on a lot the dealer is paying finance charges for the inventory that causes them to adjust pricing to alleviate carrying cost .Why would ford over produce anything ? If the went to a made to order selling model and you could get it in two weeks? . FORD in normal circumstances produces vehicles based upon what they THINK they can sell they guess wrong bingo! you have inventory sitting on the lot .THEY OVER PRODUCE WITH NEW MODELS coming out you have huge savings on what they call leftover models . All those inefficiencies will go away with a Tesla style sales model .EVERY major car company in the US IS licking there lips hoping and praying the current order and wait and pay MSRP ++ holds. they know a made to order scenario and everyone paying what they say you should pay is max profit for them ,BTW dealers love it to! Are you kidding me! Put 10 models on the floor have everyone come order a vehicle and pay full price No carrying cost Car dealerships because of the internet and before covid where basically selling cars AT COST because of the brutal competition and cars sitting on the lot not sold due to overproduction . YOU GO TO THE CURRENT MODEL dealers go to max profit

 

[MLowe05]

All those inefficiencies will go away with a Tesla style sales model .EVERY major car company in the US IS licking there lips hoping and praying the current order and wait and pay MSRP ++ holds. they know a made to order scenario and everyone paying what they say you should pay is max profit for them ,BTW dealers love it to! Are you kidding me! Put 10 models on the floor have everyone come order a vehicle and pay full price No carrying cost Car dealerships because of the internet and before covid where basically selling cars AT COST because of the brutal competition and cars sitting on the lot not sold due to overproduction . YOU GO TO THE CURRENT MODEL dealers go to max profit

I mean, that is provably incorrect. I ordered my Maverick at 4% under invoice price. It ends up being over $2,000 less than MSRP.

Sure, if you're not willing to work for it and you're just looking to go down the street and pay whatever - you'll be taken for a ride. But if you want a deal, they can still be had. Perhaps not at your neighborhood dealer (mine wanted MSRP) but somewhere.

Also, going Tesla-style would eliminate the dealers altogether, not maximize their profits. That's an idea I can get behind.

 

[lmellberg]

Been using my small local dealer for years. I like to shop locally when I can. He has 7 mav's ordered and I am #1 ordered 6/10. Been priority 10 since day one.
I will never go this route again, if it ain't on the lot I ain't buying it.
In fact if and when I do get my Mav I will drive it into the ground if I have to before I buy another vehicle.

Totally understand your frustration as I am waiting & waiting as well. The one thing about waiting until it is on the lot, those dealers will mark them up probably about $2K+. And we all know with the demand, there will be no negotiating at all. Stinks to have to wait, but I am excited to take the $2K & buy a new set of tires/wheels!

 

[jc888888888]

I mean, that is provably incorrect. I ordered my Maverick at 4% under invoice price. It ends up being over $2,000 less than MSRP.

Sure, if you're not willing to work for it and you're just looking to go down the street and pay whatever - you'll be taken for a ride. But if you want a deal, they can still be had. Perhaps not at your neighborhood dealer (mine wanted MSRP) but somewhere.

Also, going Tesla-style would eliminate the dealers altogether, not maximize their profits. That's an idea I can get behind.

I hear what you are saying and it has some validity. BUT You sir are the exception not the rule ,1 out of 100 people will order a car 1000 miles from there home and pay to ship it to gain 4% or less. .Reality is the 4% you gained was created under the old car manufacturer rules. .Another words 2 or 3 astute dealers understanding the system and capitalizing on it by giving up some profit to gain volume . I am not knocking Tesla I own shares in the company but show me one Tesla dealership that will sell you a car for 1 penny less than another one? That is exactly what would happen to Ford. And Tesla started there sales model from scratch. Ford has 3000 independently owed dealerships(another words Ford does not own any of that system) and if those independent dealers go away Who will service the cars ,who will deliver them to customers. Ford would go bankrupt trying to build that system . Tesla was built from square one, they deliver 1/20th of the cars Ford does. Also 80% of dealership profit revenue is service, you will pay there . Tesla was and is currently the first at a truly revolutionary EV vehicle. As Ford and VW (VW the largest car maker in the world owning 30% of all EV sales in Europe and Asia and more than 10 diversified brands: think: Audi ,Porsche, VW and the biggest European brands ) come on line with EV,s Tesla will survive but not rule. These legacy car makers have the infrastructure and Knowledge and cash to scale quickly . You want forced competition .That is what will drive prices down. But the only way you will save 4% is under the current system ,Not under the Tesla type model you will pay thru the nose.

 

[MLowe05]

You said it yourself, 80% of profit is service. So the "dealerships" can be service centers. I'd be OK with that. Obviously due to laws in this country and lobbying, that will never happen.

I'm creative and adaptable. I'll seek out the best deal, even if it isn't local.

 

[JASmith]

In a digital build-to-order world in which financing is something anyone can do in seconds using an online form and with online dealers like Carvana proving that direct-to-door sales models are very much viable and desirable, the real question is why you're paying so much for a middle-man in the first place?

You'd likely save 10% or more on your vehicle if you were able to just fill out an online form to order your vehicle directly from Ford and have it shipped straight to your driveway, no haggling required to avoid getting ripped off, fixed price.

Dealerships know this and have formed massive unions that have successfully lobbied lawmakers and government representatives to ensure that manufacturers can't sell direct and have pushed for what should be illegal double-taxation and other laws to discourage people from selling their vehicles private party. Only real benefit to manufacturers is that it makes it almost impossible for small startup competitors to sell their vehicles since they have to establish a dealership network, killing competition and innovation, but that again is certainly not a consumer benefit.

Fact is, that middle man costs big $$$ and isn't adding a lot of value to a customer that is just ordering and waiting for a vehicle.

 

[Arukoru]

That's not how any of that works. There is no reason that the person who orders first and gets produced first can't be in rural Alaska. Sure the delivery date may be later, but saying that people that live in more populated states should get first vehicles produced in ridiculous. The logistics of building the vehicles has nothing to do with where a customer lives. They order parts with very long lead times and every single Maverick is produced in the same location in Mexico regardless.

if you ran a business and took pre orders for something, are you really going to arrange shipping to rural Alaska for one order because they were first or are you going to wait for a second order nearby so that you don't pay insane shipping twice?

the answer is that you'd wait

 

[Rojo]

It makes more sense to ship in bulk. Sending 100 vehicles to a city that has 3 large dealerships is easier than sending 6 vehicles to a small dealer in a small town.

Keep in mind these are shipped by rail out of mexico.
I used to be a train dispatcher and a locomotive engineer before that, so I‘ve had my fair share of vehicle trains.

Okay, question, I live about 10 minutes from a fairly large KCS railyard, what are the chances when mine ships it comes directly to my city and is not driven halfway across the country in a car hauler? Also, how do cars ship on trains? I've seen plenty of military vehicles shipped by train but never a civilian vehicle which leads me to believe they are inside rail cars?

 

[jc888888888]

In a digital build-to-order world in which financing is something anyone can do in seconds using an online form and with online dealers like Carvana proving that direct-to-door sales models are very much viable and desirable, the real question is why you're paying so much for a middle-man in the first place?

You'd likely save 10% or more on your vehicle if you were able to just fill out an online form to order your vehicle directly from Ford and have it shipped straight to your driveway, no haggling required to avoid getting ripped off, fixed price.

Dealerships know this and have formed massive unions that have successfully lobbied lawmakers and government representatives to ensure that manufacturers can't sell direct and have pushed for what should be illegal double-taxation and other laws to discourage people from selling their vehicles private party. Only real benefit to manufacturers is that it makes it almost impossible for small startup competitors to sell their vehicles since they have to establish a dealership network, killing competition and innovation, but that again is certainly not a consumer benefit.

Fact is, that middle man costs big $$$ and isn't adding a lot of value to a customer that is just ordering and waiting for a vehicle.

So who services these cars? ,who warranties them? so ford just buys out all these independent dealerships to do that ? Tesla has 3 month wait times for service and they are the best in breed when in comes to EVs. They deliver no cars in comparison to the majors. And here is a news flash, Have you ever looked at the prices of a used car on sites like Carvana they are the highest used car prices in the used car industry .Convenient yes , Economical no way! Carvana and everyone like them is a dealer..

 

[JASmith]

So who services these cars? ,who warranties them?

Anyone services them, and Ford warranties them, that's the beauty of it. If you get into a car accident, you go to a repair shop and they replace bumpers, suspensions, headlights, repaint, etc. These usually aren't done at dealerships, and the bill goes to the insurance company who approves the billing for the work to be reasonable.

Ford can do the same, it doesn't have to be a dealership that sells cars in order to repair cars. In fact, generally speaking most people know better than to bring their out-of-warranty vehicles to a dealership for repairs and maintenance, because they'll be much more expensive than independent shops, and many of those independent shops are large chains too like Autocare USA.

Without the prohibitive laws in place, in the information age there's no reason that it shouldn't be more common to buy and sell used cars private party, saving everyone a ton of overhead, and those sales should be tax free because taxes have already been paid when that item was initially purchased. Double-taxation is not normal for the sale of used things, and if I sell you my refrigerator or gaming PC you aren't paying taxes on it a second, third, fourth, or fifth time. But yes, there are a multitude of independent options too like Carmax, Texas Direct, Autonation, Vroom, and numerous independent car dealerships that sell a wide variety of vehicles. You don't need manufacturer dealerships for anything.

The less middle-men are involved in any sale, the lower prices can be, all else equal. That huge dealership building, parking lot, all those emloyees, the insurance, taxes, etc all adds huge overhead costs that aren't necessary. And if you do want/need middlemen its best to use economy of scale, so no reason you couldn't buy your car through Amazon or Costco like any other commodity as they tend to be able to push through goods with less overhead.

Sponsored