Deleted

[Phimosis]

I was lucky enough to drive a friend's new GT3 RS, it has an "automated manual" 7-speed and I think the way it's designed it can't skip gears. So, when you're driving slowly in city traffic, you clearly hear and feel it shift through like 6 gears by the time you get up to 20 MPH. It feels really strange, made me realize that skipping gears makes sense in everyday driving

Doesn’t feel strange to me. Feels completely natural. A twin clutch will start to release first gear as it starts to clamp down on second gear, so the flow of power never stops: 1st gear disengagement is happening while 2nd gear engagement is happening. There’s no surge from the acceleration of first gear stopping, then a gap at 0 G acceleration, then a big acceleration spike when second gear engages. It’s just all one fluid and continuous rush of acceleration.

Also, 20 mph in 6th gear in a GT3 would be 925 rpm. It would never do that because the pdk won’t fully engage the clutch for the next gear until around 1,200 rpm. Even if you tried to manually up shift, it would be like “nah bro, not yet”.

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[710-oil-614]

Doesn’t feel strange to me. Feels completely natural. A twin clutch will start to release first gear as it starts to clamp down on second gear, so the flow of power never stops: 1st gear disengagement is happening while 2nd gear engagement is happening. There’s no surge from the acceleration of first gear stopping, then a gap at 0 G acceleration, then a big acceleration spike when second gear engages. It’s just all one fluid and continuous rush of acceleration.

Also, 20 mph in 6th gear in a GT3 would be 925 rpm. It would never do that because the pdk won’t fully engage the clutch for the next gear until around 1,200 rpm. Even if you tried to manually up shift, it would be like “nah bro, not yet”.

More like….

kein Bro, noch nicht

 

[Escapologist]

I think the 2-3 shift was like that on all the torqueflite derived models, and it was almost like trying to be in 2 gears at once, with resultant buck and or shudder if the band adjustment went out or the line pressure was low. That will probably be a bugbear of dual clutch units, when it's working perfectly it works perfect, when something has drifted off spec it doesn't cope.

Edit: Apropos of that, demand to see the old transmission filter, some of these even high priced transmission services are not replacing the filter, so the new fluid and/or flush does you very little good if the pump is straining against a filter full of worn friction materials and brass bushing dust.

 

[Phimosis]

I think the 2-3 shift was like that on all the torqueflite derived models, and it was almost like trying to be in 2 gears at once, with resultant buck and or shudder if the band adjustment went out or the line pressure was low. That will probably be a bugbear of dual clutch units, when it's working perfectly it works perfect, when something has drifted off spec it doesn't cope.

Edit: Apropos of that, demand to see the old transmission filter, some of these even high priced transmission services are not replacing the filter, so the new fluid and/or flush does you very little good if the pump is straining against a filter full of worn friction materials and brass bushing dust.

Nah, those torqueflites are the days of old. A pdk trans has sensors for toque, rpm, shift rod position, clutch pressure sensor, throttle position sensor, oil temp sensor, etc. Then the TCU has a large map to work with, kind of like how the ECU can detect knock and retard timing or richen up the fuel table.

It’s like comparing smart phones to dumb phones. Ever watch the video where they take a 911 turbo and do 50 launch control launches back to back with no break between launches? It does it flawlessly all 50 times with no degradation in measured 0-60.

 

[Escapologist]

Yah they can modulate line pressure to each component doing PWM on the solenoids, and compensate for wear and condition of fluid... but at the end of the day, if the mechanicals are a tad out of whack, they're a tad out of whack.

 

[Darryl]

thank you for the link, better journalism than the C&D report.
it's shocking that Car & Driver doesn't know this -

"every component of the new HF55 hybrid transaxle (now used in all Maverick Hybrid versions) is uprated while continuing to fit within the same package size as its predecessor. Torque from the drive motor rises from 235 to 320 Newton-meters (173 to 236 pound-feet), while the generator’s power output goes from 78 to 96 kilowatts (105 to 129 horsepower)."

that would explain the performance improvements..

Ford kept the official numbers the same though. So I'm wondering if the combination of hybrid versus engine has been altered a bit to give the same total numbers but changes the power curve to make it more effective.. I think another reason is that all prior year hybrids were front-wheel drive only. That allowed front wheel spin so the traction control backed off a bit. Most of the hybrids tested in 2025 were all-wheel drive. That allows power to all four wheels and there is no wheel spin. So the traction control doesn't need to kick in

 

[710-oil-614]

Ford kept the official numbers the same though. So I'm wondering if the combination of hybrid versus engine has been altered a bit to give the same total numbers but changes the power curve to make it more effective.. I think another reason is that all prior year hybrids were front-wheel drive only. That allowed front wheel spin so the traction control backed off a bit. Most of the hybrids tested in 2025 were all-wheel drive. That allows power to all four wheels and there is no wheel spin. So the traction control doesn't need to kick in

Ford kept the combine HP number the same. Ford does not publish a combined torque number.

torque is what matters for 0-60 and it’s very clear that they significantly increased the torque from the electric motor that is available at 0 RPM.

 

[Darryl]

Ford kept the combine HP number the same. Ford does not publish a combined torque number.

torque is what matters for 0-60 and it’s very clear that they significantly increased the torque from the electric motor that is available at 0 RPM.

Makes sense. And with AWD the extra torque can be effectively transmitted to the wheels without losing traction. That's what I love about my hybrid. Even on wet roads I don't lose traction on acceleration to the point that the traction control needs to noticeably interfere.

 

[710-oil-614]

Makes sense. And with AWD the extra torque can be effectively transmitted to the wheels without losing traction. That's what I love about my hybrid. Even on wet roads I don't lose traction on acceleration to the point that the traction control needs to noticeably interfere.

Yep I think both help but that bump in immediate torque is the real winner

 

[Darryl]

Yep I think both help but that bump in immediate torque is the real winner

The only way to know for certain is to compare the 9-60 times with both the 2024 and 2025 being front wheel drive. The. We can see how much is power vs how much is it getting the power to the ground. It would be interesting at the least.

 

[710-oil-614]

The only way to know for certain is to compare the 9-60 times with both the 2024 and 2025 being front wheel drive. The. We can see how much is power vs how much is it getting the power to the ground. It would be interesting at the least.

Sure. Or we can simply deduct that the vehicle got roughly a 25% bump in torque at 0 rpm and that’s the reason for the improved 0-60 times.

 

[Darryl]

Sure. Or we can simply deduct that the vehicle got roughly a 25% bump in torque at 0 rpm and that’s the reason for the improved 0-60 times.

What happens in theory often suffers from real life. Example: could the 2025 2wd actually be a bit slower 0-60 because the extra torque could cause the front wheels to skip and cause the traction control to kick in a bit more to limit the power? Maybe, maybe not. A side by side test would settle it on the ground vs in theory. Doesn't matter to me, it's just a curiosity thing for me.

 

[710-oil-614]

What happens in theory often suffers from real life. Example: could the 2025 2wd actually be a bit slower 0-60 because the extra torque could cause the front wheels to skip and cause the traction control to kick in a bit more to limit the power? Maybe, maybe not. A side by side test would settle it on the ground vs in theory. Doesn't matter to me, it's just a curiosity thing for me.

Does the FWD with HF45 struggle with traction on 0-60 runs?

 

[Darryl]

Does the FWD with HF45 struggle with traction on 0-60 runs?

Don't know. A 0-60 test would confirm if it does or doesn't though.

 

[JohnCondren1933]

Yeah I had a Prius, love-hate relationship
that thing survived way too long keeping me driving it lol.
Toyota with their Prius kicked off the hybrid mpg dick-measuring contest, if your hybrid wasn't within 5% of Toyota Prius mpg then it was a dogshit powertrain blah blah. Prius was optimized for world's best mpg at the expense of everything else, like merging in freeway traffic or uphill, once it had 50k miles on it.

Hybrid electric drivetrains can certainly be optimized for strong acceleration if you arent obsessed with how efficient you are vs Prius like every automag in 2010 who took hybrids falling too far behind the Prius efficiency as the equivalent of a performance car that couldnt match 0-60 times of its competition.

I didn't really state it clearly in the original post, but what really impresses me is that you get stellar fuel economy without much of a trade-off in performance. Even pulling 4000 lbs, the Maverick hybrid accelerates fine.

Fuel efficient cars like the older Prius used to be dead slow in acceleration, almost scary when you had to do a quick highway merge. But with these newer hybrids you're not giving up much at all vs the non-hybrid.

You can't get great mileage while you're doing quick 0 to 60 runs, but at least you have the choice of both

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