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🥊 2022 Maverick vs Santa Cruz PRICING, SPECS, TRIMS Comparison

JASmith

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That's fine. I hope you enjoy your Santa Cruz. My point was, where are profits for Hyundai going? I thought Hyundai was based in South Korea?
Huh? I haven't ordered a Santa Cruz, I was just providing facts for people shopping between both vehicles like I am.

Is your question out of every dollar you spend, how much of that dollar is going into the US economy between the two vehicles?

That's not published, but generally speaking if its a North America only market vehicle, the marketing is done from the US, the design is done in the US, the engine and transmission are built in the US, the assembly is in the US, and domestic parts content is high, chances are its a high percentage.

Likewise, the least American "domestic" vehicle for sale in 2021 is the Chevy Trailblazer that was designed by Korean engineers, designed for the Asian market, built in Korea, with only 1% US parts content (probably some proprietary parts required for US DOT certification), most of that dollar will end up in the Korean economy. Where the global CEO lives isn't a major factor because these are multinational companies now, and even though the board members make huge salaries, their total percentage amount out of each dollar is very low since there are so few of them. I'd be surprised if it was a penny from every dollar spent.

If you're looking at tax revenue generated, usually the product that is built and assembled in the US with a lot of US parts is going to pay more taxes in the US, so Hyundai would pay more in US taxes than Ford since NAFTA doesn't require them to pay any import duties and they don't pay US taxes on factories or non-American employees not on US soil.
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TruckGuySC

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The Santa Cruz was designed by a team of American engineers and the powertrains are built and vehicles assembled here in the US, and won't even be sold in Korea as its designed to be a North America market only vehicle. Domestic parts content is 53%, higher than a lot of "domestic" brands:
Capture.JPG


I don't think we know what the domestic parts content will be of the Maverick, but its not made in the US, and it could be like the Chevy Trailblazer that only has 1% domestic parts content, even though its an American brand name.

The Ford Ranger is a VERY American vehicle, but the Maverick probably not so much.
But which country are profits repatriated to?
 

JASmith

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But which country are profits repatriated to?
I have no clue what you are talking about. Can you explain how you think multi-national businesses work? Companies pay employees salaries, those employees pay income tax, the companies making the parts pay taxes in the country they are in, and the companies pay taxes to the country hosting their factories and the profits they make there.

When Google opened operations up in Dublin for their EMEA Head Quarters and hired 8K workers there, all those taxes and revenue goes into the Irish economy, not the American one.

The main reason companies are opening factories in countries like Mexico is so that they don't have to pay American workers and American taxes. Trying not to bring up politics, but that was the whole reason for trying to stop American companies from moving to Mexico, because when they do, all that revenue leaves the US as well for Mexico. Hence the threat of tariffs.
 

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I have no clue what you are talking about. Can you explain how you think multi-national businesses work? Companies pay employees salaries, those employees pay income tax, the companies making the parts pay taxes in the country they are in, and the companies pay taxes to the country hosting their factories and the profits they make there.

When Google opened operations up in Dublin for their EMEA Head Quarters and hired 8K workers there, all those taxes and revenue goes into the Irish economy, not the American one.

The main reason companies are opening factories in countries like Mexico is so that they don't have to pay American workers and American taxes. Trying not to bring up politics, but that was the whole reason for trying to stop American companies from moving to Mexico, because when they do, all that revenue leaves the US as well for Mexico. Hence the threat of tariffs.
Sorry dude, I graduated from one of the top business schools in the country, and have my MBA. Previously I was in the strategy department of a US company traveling to over 50 countries and living in five (incl. the USA) So I’ll play..

First off, no threat of tariffs with Mexico as you describe since Trump renegotiated NAFTA into USMCA, putting the US on an equal footing under the trade deal. As a matter of fact, I don’t know of any major US factories moving Mexico as of late. As a matter of fact Ford is rebuilding the Rouge plant into a state of the art factory for expanded F-150 Lightening production. Their new battery plant is being built in GA. The bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler forced the unions to accept competitive wages and benefits (along with RTW states), and with the drug wars raging in Mexico, the incentive to move there is gone.

Secondly, many western countries don’t tax repatriated profits bc of the benefits of those funds flowing through their home economies (if you remember, under Obama, US Companies were keeping hundreds of billions in profits overseas due to high US taxes on repatriated profits). With the Trump tax cuts, that rate was lowered to 8% and $500 billion was repatriated by American companies almost immediately.

Are you trying to tell me that the repatriated profits do not benefit the home country’s economy?

For your edification, here’s a fairly full explanation of the repatriation of profits.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118785317.weom060167
 

JASmith

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Sorry dude, I graduated from one of the top business schools in the country, and have my MBA. Previously I was in the strategy department of a US company traveling to over 50 countries and living in five (incl. the USA) So I’ll play..
First off, this is the internet and everyone claims to be an expert, so flashing credentials using an anonymous account is one of the most silly things someone can do online. As the CEO of one of the top fortune 500 companies and board member on others with a net worth of over $45 billion, I should know. /s

Why do you think that so many countries, or even states in the US, fight tooth and nail to get companies to move to their locations? Because the lions share of revenues generated stay within that locality for all the before mentioned reasons. Moving of funds is also something that goes both ways, and can just as easily flow out of the country where global HQ is into other markets.
Are you trying to tell me that the repatriated profits do not benefit the home country’s economy?
Correct, I believe its an insignificant amount of their total revenues and costs of operation, and is again typically taxed by the host country. Do we at least agree that "to what degree" is what is of relevance?

For example, ifs for every $1 a consumer spends on a Ford Maverick, if 2 cents is repatriated into the US economy and tax system, and 98 cents is invested into the Mexican economy and taxes, I think we can agree that where the lions share of all the work for a vehicle is done and where most of the parts from the vehicle are manufactured is of greater importance than where a multi-national corporation is globally headquartered out of, right?

So what percentage of revenue do you believe is repatriated from Ford corporate out of Mexico compared to total investment into Mexico for every dollar a consumer spends, and based on what figures?
 
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TruckGuySC

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First off, this is the internet and everyone claims to be an expert, so flashing credentials using an anonymous account is one of the most silly things someone can do online. As the CEO of one of the top fortune 500 companies and board member on others with a net worth of over $45 billion, I should know. /s

Why do you think that so many countries, or even states in the US, fight tooth and nail to get companies to move to their locations? Because the lions share of revenues generated stay within that locality for all the before mentioned reasons. Moving of funds is also something that goes both ways, and can just as easily flow out of the country where global HQ is into other markets.

Correct, I believe its an insignificant amount of their total revenues and costs of operation, and is again typically taxed by the host country. Do we at least agree that "to what degree" is what is of relevance?

For example, ifs for every $1 a consumer spends on a Ford Maverick, if 2 cents is repatriated into the US economy and tax system, and 98 cents is invested into the Mexican economy and taxes, I think we can agree that where the lions share of all the work for a vehicle is done and where most of the parts from the vehicle are manufactured is of greater importance than where a multi-national corporation is globally headquartered out of, right?

So what percentage of revenue do you believe is repatriated from Ford corporate out of Mexico compared to total investment into Mexico for every dollar a consumer spends, and based on what figures?
I’ll gladly share my real credentials; will you? 💁🏼‍♂️
 

JASmith

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I’ll gladly share my real credentials; will you? 💁🏼‍♂️
We're all very impressed with how amazing you are, so you can deflate your head now before it explodes. 🤣

Next time you are in your conference call with the captains of industry, ask the Chinese chairman how their economy is doing, since they grew mostly from assembling and manufacturing products and parts for goods from non-Chinese companies that contracted out the work.
 

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We're all very impressed with how amazing you are, so you can deflate your head now before it explodes. 🤣

Next time you are in your conference call with the captains of industry, ask the Chinese chairman how their economy is doing, since they grew mostly from assembling and manufacturing products and parts for goods from non-Chinese companies that contracted out the work.
I see that you refuse to disclose your own experience and credentials. As I would likewise not accept medical advice from my CPA, I’ll simply regard your comments as I’ll-informed and vacuous.
 

JASmith

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I see that you refuse to disclose your own experience and credentials. As I would likewise not accept medical advice from my CPA, I’ll simply regard your comments as I’ll-informed and vacuous.
Because only creepy stalkers would care about doxing, normal people care about concrete facts.

Facts such as the information label that lists how much of a vehicle is or isn't American, because most of the cost of a vehicle lies in the actual cost to produce it, all the materials, the parts, the labor, the taxes, etc. If the lions share of that overhead is not in or of the United States, then clearly that money isn't in the US economy.

This is well understood, which is the entire reason that such labels are on the monroney window sticker, and mentioning China, sure a huge portion of the products they produce are under American brand names, but its clearly massively lucrative for the Chinese economy to have all that work making and assembling the product done there as seen by their explosive growth.

If you have some numbers to show us about how much revenue Ford is repatriating from the Mexican operations compared to all the before mentioned costs and minus their huge initial investment to build out there, I'm sure everyone would love to see that. Here is a published study from Cars.com that has put forth an effort to create an "American Made Index" for 2021 model year taking in all the many factors, and as you can see they don't show repatriation a significant enough economic impact to bother accounting for:

Ford Maverick 🥊 2022 Maverick vs Santa Cruz PRICING, SPECS, TRIMS Comparison Capture.JPG

Here we can see on their top 10 ranking how Honda features prominently with a few of their offerings, demonstrating how just looking at branding doesn't work when these companies have grown into global corporations.
 

CACTI_HYBRID

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That's fine. I hope you enjoy your Santa Cruz.

I understand that much design for the Santa Cruz and many if their parts were assembled in the USA. Apparently they've made an effort to prove so. I've not seen the same information for the Maverick, but I'd look forward to seeing it. We know the Ecoboost is built in Cleveland. While the hybrid ICE is built in Mexico, the transmission is built in the USA. 🤷‍♂️ Can't know everything until we see a similar release from Ford.

My point was, where are profits for Hyundai going? I thought Hyundai was based in South Korea?
And where do the assembly line workers taking home a paycheck live in the case of the Maverick vs the Santa Cruz?
 

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If money was not an issue, I would have a Ridgeline in my driveway. I’m sure I’ll be okay with my Maverick though.
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