Scumbag move by Crain Ford Jacksonville Arkansas

[NJBob]

These are good questions. I understand what you are saying and I agree that it should be that way. But I don't agree that it actually is that way. The details of what exactly was said (or written) make a difference.

First, I agree with your statement that: "Having a physically signed (buyer) and countersigned (dealer) Buyer's Order is not required for there to be a legally binding contract at least in many (most?) states." That's true, a legally binding contract can be formed in many ways, not just with a Buyer's Order. But whether there are multiple ways to form a binding contract is not the question. The question is whether an order form (DORA) -- without more -- is one of those ways.

The "piece of paper" that most people sign when they place their Ford order is a "DORA." It describes the vehicle, but the language on the DORA talks only about making an order. For example, my original DORA says "Preview Order," "Order Summary," "This order has not been submitted to the order bank," and "This is not an invoice."

Nothing on the DORA says that the dealer is offering that vehicle to you at that price. On its face, it appears that you are simply ordering a vehicle. There isn't even a place on the form for the dealer to accept the order or sign in any capacity. (Contrast that to a formal "Buyer's Order" 00 mine has places for both buyer and seller to sign and says "This Order is not binding until accepted by the seller... .")

In short, I compare the DORA to a Purchase Order used in the absence of a framework agreement. A purchase order is signed by the buyer and given to the seller. But it does not become a contract until the seller accepts it. I think that's why I haven't seen any reports that a buyer has successfully sued a car dealer in contract on a DORA or anything like it.

But... I agree with you that if you have an email that says: "We offer to sell you this car at this price, sign and return the attached document," then you probably have a contract. There is plenty of law saying that an email from someone can constitute a signed writing and (perhaps combined with other information) establish a contract.

[Note: I am not talking here about fraud, deceptive trade practices, or anything other than contracts. That's because I'm talking about how people can protect themselves ahead of time, not how they can try for relief later. And I'm not ignoring your promissory estoppel argument -- which is legally valid -- it's just that it too would require some proof that a promise was made and I don't think the DORA provides that.]

My Dora shows all the options I ordered and the price. But it is only signed by me. After reading all these horror stories who knows. Hope my dealer is honest. I will walk if they try to add an adm.

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[Bushpilot]

My Dora shows all the options I ordered and the price. But it is only signed by me. After reading all these horror stories who knows. Hope my dealer is honest. I will walk if they try to add an adm.

So, most dealers (I imagine) will honor what you have. Mine did.

Then there are the exceptions, unfortunately...

 

[Chuck Norris]

Bait and switch? Based on what, hearsay?

What does the buyers copy of the signed/countersigned contract say? Oh wait.......



.

Based on the dealer letting the customer believe the vehicle would be MSRP, allowing the customer to order the vehicle for the dealer, not really for the customer, unless of course the customer caves to the extortion

 

[DryHeat]

Guess the concept of having a "clear title" to something isn't in your database either? Still blaming customers instead of the scumbags? Are you a volunteer or do they pay you? Guess Ford doesn't "own" the vehicles once they come off the transporters? Whose name is the title in? Who pays sales tax first? WOW, so much insider info you seem to have! Awesome! Bad consumers, not ever rotten dealers? OK!

Are you one of those people who never say anything because they are always "Just asking questions"? I ask because you haven't even tried to show that the questions you asked earlier actually meant anything... you've just fired off a bunch of new ones. I doubt that you will defend these either, but I'll answer them anyway...

-- Clear title: Generally speaking, a clear title is a title with no liens or other encumbrances.
Question 1: Do you think that not having a clear title means you are not the owner?

-- Ownership/Title: The dealer owns the cars on his lot. But In Arizona (and probably most states) new vehicles don't have titles until they are sold to the first consumer owner.
Question 2: Do you think a new, unsold car has a title in the dealer's (or Ford's) name?

-- First sales tax: In Arizona (and probably most states) the first consumer buyer pays the sales tax. Dealers don't pay sales tax to purchase inventory.
Question 3: Do you think the dealer pays sales tax to acquire inventory?

If your questions weren't just a bunch of smoke, you would respond meaningfully to the questions above (and to the ones here). But I guess we'll see...

[BTW, I'm just a consumer and I'm not blaming my fellow consumers. I think the process dealers use to trick people into not having a contract is deceptive and I hope that some state AG will attack, maybe based on fraud or violation of consumer protection statutes. But until then I do want to provide information that might help people protect themselves.]

 

[DryHeat]

My Dora shows all the options I ordered and the price. But it is only signed by me. After reading all these horror stories who knows. Hope my dealer is honest. I will walk if they try to add an adm.

You have a decent chance. Not all dealers are pulling these tricks. Good luck.

 

[Reconditioner]

This is what I don't understand. all sorts of stories here by buyers getting screwed. and none of them thought to get the signed purchase order? That was part of the reservation process as i recall. i "built the vehicle on the website. that got transmitted to the local dealer. he called me - i went in - went over the order. printed out the purchase order, I signed it, the Sales Manager signed it - I Took My Copy Home - put it in a file and waited.
Vehicle arrived - I had already arranged financing - went in - double checked final price against the offer sheet - all good. I drove off with my maverick 45 minutes after i showed up.

In most of these "buyer got screwed by dealer" stories i see, there is almost inevitably some sort of delay based on financing not being not arranged and squared away, and the buyer wants the dealer to wait for a couple days - or a week, to allow them to get the financing in place. So why would the dealer do that? that's a red flag - maybe the buyer can get it financed - maybe not - but your asking them to hold on to a red hot commodity based on the purchasers word that they will have the money in a couple days or week.

I have not seen a single buyer here or anywhere else complain about getting screwed by a dealer - IF they have the signed buyers agreement - and financing figured out. its pretty simple.

I'm not defending dealers - all of these things, the signed order and having financing arranged, are specifically to cut off the dealer from weaseling out of the deal, and a certain % will always try to - so thats why you lock them in!.

I’ll defend a dealer! HOME in Farmington, Maine. They were great to work with. I went in and to see about money arrangements and they said, “When it comes in.” It came in Thursday when I was out of town. I stopped to look at it on my way home, (saw you on the camera, Tom), went in Monday and they told me Wednesday’s the day. Called Tuesday and said come get the car. Half hour of money talk and signings, sat in the car with Amy while neither of us knew much about it, and came home. Only price I ever saw was the one I paid.

 

[LeersMav]

Lawyer here. NOT in ARKANSAS. NOT TO BE USED AS LEGAL ADVICE.

See if there is a consumer protection attorney you can speak with in that area. There may be laws that permit them to recover the fees and costs in these situations. That would make them inclined to take the case. This case is unlike a lot of others on the forum where the person walks and damages could be hard to quantify. Here this is likely fraud (treble damages?), but the lawyer would file for breach and unjust enrichment as well. Assuming this is how it all went down, I would give you a more likely than not chance of success. The GM sounds like a total shitface, and will likely present himself as one in court too.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Mpape]

I guess I was lucky, reading all these horror stories about prices being changed at purchase. I picked up my Maverick today, since I ordered the truck back in August, the salesman quit, the guy that wrote up my order and the person that signed the ordered retired. So this afternoon when I went to pick it up, all the numbers remained the same as when I ordered it in August. All went well, quick and easy. The Sales Manager did tell me if I didn’t buy the truck, they were raising the price $7500.00 for Market Adjustment and for me not to price the truck if I wanted to keep it, because there are so many out there willing to pay more for the truck to get one this year.

 

[CACTI_HYBRID]

So you paid the $5k markup??
Just one question - Why???

You do realize there are other dealers, and other vehicles right? The Maverick is nice but $5k puts you in a different league with many other options. It will also buy a lot of gas or even fix up your current vehicle. If my dealer was to suggest that I'd tell them to stick it.

 

[Larockman]

In either case, the dealership giving me a piece of paper to sign (either directly or via e-mail) constitutes an offer. As long as I don't make changes to the offer and just sign it, that constitutes acceptance. There seems to be plenty of case-law (at least from New York, Florida, and Texas) that I don't even have to sign the attachment and an e-mail stating "I agree with the terms as written" is enough to form a binding contract (or could even be a series of e-mails). The dealership entering my order with Ford is consideration (and if there was a deposit, even more-so). Intent would be self-evident. Finally, there is damages since the buyer would be out both time and money. Having a physically signed (buyer) and countersigned (dealer) Buyer's Order is not required for there to be a legally binding contract at least in many (most?) states.

I agree. I am also not an attorney but I find many attorneys actually know less than I do about many aspects of the law. I have also read probably 300+ various case law cases. I have a friend that is an attorney and he will often ask my advice on legal issues. Also I'm very familiar with the AG. So I understand how that works too. The law is a lot more common sense than it is formality. Of course, having a signed very clear contract is best but verbal contracts do exist and the dealership presenting a document for you to sign with a price is going to be a very compelling argument that they intended to sell a vehicle to you at that price. Unless it had some language that this isn't a contract or an offer to sell this car at this price. I'd agree that once someone sues them they'll refund money real quick. Probably would cave before it even turned into a law suit.

 

[James D]

My Dora shows all the options I ordered and the price. But it is only signed by me. After reading all these horror stories who knows. Hope my dealer is honest. I will walk if they try to add an adm.

Don't you get it? They will bully you until you walk and high five each other as you leave. Hold them to the price promised on the order form.

 

[James D]

Rohaas,

Call Ford Maverick team 800.334.4375. Tell them to email you a copy of your original order because you cannot find it. One you have it, go above the GM and contact the owner of the dealership directly. If no response file a small claims action to get your $5k back.

A dealer telling a judge that the price on the Order Form means nothing would not set a good precedent, he would probably get reprimanded pretty hard and accused of a fraudulent business practice. My bet is the dealer will not want to face a judge and will refund you prior to the court date.

Think about it, if your signed order for a truck that was built just for you under your name and DL# meant nothing, than why would they sell to you when they told you they could get +$10k from some other sucker?

As a comparison, the price on one page Purchase Orders that businesses use to order everything from office supplies to vehicles would then mean nothing. Or the driver delivering your Amazon order can tell you he will not leave your package because, sorry, demand went up yesterday and he has to collect $500 more.

As ridiculous as these examples sound, it is really no different than Ford or a dealer not honoring a price they offered which you accepted with your signature on the Order Form.

If your signed order form at MSRP means nothing it would be the BAIT. Then if the dealer unilaterally makes a one-sided decision on some random future price increase after you sign, that would be the SWITCH. They bullied you and got you to sign for the new price under duress with the threat that they will sell to someone else +$10k. To me that is a fraudulent business practice.

I would also contact Ford's Assistant to the CEO Jim Farley and ask to speak to him or someone on the Board of Directors. Email and send tweets to all the executives at Ford: https://corporate.ford.com/about/leadership.html They told consumers they will not stand for what happened to you so hold them to their word.

Here is a descendant of Henry Ford that is on the Board. Alexandra Ford English is her name. She should be disgusted and embarrassed on behalf of Henry himself about your experience.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwome...nglish-joins-ford-motor-company.html?page=all

This link shows the Board members, including people involved with organizations such as Catholic Charities, John Deere, MetLife, Dartmouth College, and Dell. If they do nothing after hearing about your situation, that can easily be interpreted that they are complicit enablers of future bullying of consumers by Ford and even at their own firms.

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/F/company-people

Post a YouTube video about what happened to you directed at Farley and the Board. Make them all very uncomfortable.

Most importantly, Farley should be very concerned about the bad will his dealer placed all over Ford's name and should publicly apologize to you on his Twitter account so we all can see that he truly cares about his customers. That is what a good leader would do.

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