Lower Octane Fuel

[GPSMan]

Actually, octane has a market value and high octane gasoline blending components trade at a premium. As for ethanol being cheap octane, it's in both 87 and 93 at 10%, so it has no effect on 93 cost. 93 trades at a premium to 87 in the spot market, but typical only 10 cpg. The rest is added markup.

But it's not.
There's an "accepted range" for ethanol content marketed as E10! It's not tightly controlled.

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[GPSMan]

Give a Thumbs up if you think all (new electronically controlled) cars and light trucks can run well on higher than 10% ethanol factory stock.

Give a thumbs down if you think all vehicle manufacturers are sending specially modified cars and light trucks to the following countries using more than 10% ethanol mandated by law.
(partial list)

 

[RichardCranium]

I wonder how much of this is just a placebo effect as well. People think their cars or trucks run better/faster because they put the better gas in it. It would be great if one of those car magazines did a test on that…
“ hey Joe Schmo, this truck is running 91 octane (really running 87), and this one 87 (91)” and have the regular joe review which runs better.
I am with @GPSMan in that I don’t know if regular driving conditions could tell enough of a difference to justify the price (up to$1 difference in my parts of CA)

 

[GPSMan]

I wonder how much of this is just a placebo effect as well. People think their cars or trucks run better/faster because they put the better gas in it. It would be great if one of those car magazines did a test on that…
“ hey Joe Schmo, this truck is running 91 octane (really running 87), and this one 87 (91)” and have the regular joe review which runs better.
I am with @GPSMan in that I don’t know if regular driving conditions could tell enough of a difference to justify the price (up to$1 difference in my parts of CA)

They have done this.
You are very much correct.
Hundreds of studies involving hundreds of different subject matters PROVES placebo effect is very powerful. I was just about to propose a "blind test" to anyone willing to let me randomly fill their truck, say six times. Correctly ID which tanks are premium, and all that gas is on me. Be wrong, you buy me 12 tanks. A kind of "double or nothing" bet.

Cliffs notes version.
About 50% of vehicles had no change with premium fuels.
About 50% of vehicles had slight improvements in performance. IIRC none justified the price increase off the race track. At the track, I'd use premium or race gas sure.

 

[GPSMan]

Here's what I think is a great chart.

Red is average octane being produced and sold over the years.

Black is the average compression ratio of cars and light trucks being sold over the years.

In the "leaded years" octane and compression ratio moved in tandem.

With increases in technology in "modern 'unleaded' years" the two graphs diverge somewhat.

"The engine compression ratio of new cars and light trucks (black markers below) increased along a similar course as octane rating from the 1920s to the 1970s. After that time, the average compression ratio continued to increase due to advanced engine design and controls, diverging from the octane trend."

Your Maverick is not the same as a "leaded era" muscle car. Look how manufacturers had to drop compression as soon as lead was phasing out, but gains in technology quickly make up for it while the fuel was mostly unchanged.

Source: Department of Energy.gov

 

[todd92]

But it's not.
There's an "accepted range" for ethanol content marketed as E10! It's not tightly controlled.

Since, as you pointed out, it's much cheaper than other gasoline blendstocks, no refiner/blender would elect to put less than 10% in.

 

[GPSMan]

Since, as you pointed out, it's much cheaper than other gasoline blendstocks, no refiner/blender would elect to put less than 10% in.

Elect is probably a bad term to use.

More like some do by happenstance.

And in the case of California, in the early years, shipping costs to move the ethanol from Iowa was more expensive than gasoline. California sold "E10" at 6% for about a decade.

In Iowa some E10 may be 12% or 13%.

 

[RichardCranium]

Here's what I think is a great chart.

Red is average octane being produced and sold over the years.

Black is the average compression ratio of cars and light trucks being sold over the years.

In the "leaded years" octane and compression ratio moved in tandem.

With increases in technology in "modern 'unleaded' years" the two graphs diverge somewhat.

"The engine compression ratio of new cars and light trucks (black markers below) increased along a similar course as octane rating from the 1920s to the 1970s. After that time, the average compression ratio continued to increase due to advanced engine design and controls, diverging from the octane trend."

Your Maverick is not the same as a "leaded era" muscle car. Look how manufacturers had to drop compression as soon as lead was phasing out, but gains in technology quickly make up for it while the fuel was mostly unchanged.

Source: Department of Energy.gov

Very interesting graph, you can see the point in the mid 80s when they started putting computers in cars that they were really able to start increasing compression. I am also surprised that the growth was not much more at the end because Turbo engines have become much more popular in the last decade, although this chart seems to end in 2015. I would love to see it extended to current day.

 

[GPSMan]

It makes sense that higher octane will help turbocharged engines. But mainly when pushing them near their limits. Which ya gotta admit, is a small fraction of ownership time and miles in a street car, and a high fraction of the time in a race car.

 

[wb5oxq]

Regular gas in mine and I'm averaging 34 mpg over 15,000 miles

I run 87 in mine mostly due to cost and get 35-40 mpg on the highway at 65 mph.

 

[wb5oxq]

I now have a little over 2100 miles on my Maverick. Up till now I have only used premium fuel. I drive conservatively, can I safely use a lower grade fuel. 2.0 Turbo
[I have a little over 3k on mine and have never used anything but regular, 87 octane I believe her in Texas. No problems no knocking 32mpg highway plenty of power.

 

[Raymundo76]

No it does not.

The manual says the Maverick runs on a minimum pump octane rating of 87, meaning don't use anything less than 87.

The manual does recommend using 91 or higher for best overall vehicle and engine performance.

Whether an owner feels it is worth their money to fill with a top tier fuel and octane rating above 91 is entirely up to them.

Ford recommends it, but owners can get by on the minimum too.

I am not going to argue with anyone ; but when my 24 Mav Lariat hybrid arrives I plan to use 91 octane top tier gas (mostly from Costco) because Ford recommends it and because the engine has a compression ratio of 13.0. It's your car, do what you thing is right; but no one should be telling me what octane I should use in my car.

 

[GPSMan]

I am not going to argue with anyone ; but when my 24 Mav Lariat hybrid arrives I plan to use 91 octane top tier gas (mostly from Costco) because Ford recommends it and because the engine has a compression ratio of 13.0. It's your car, do what you thing is right; but no one should be telling me what octane I should use in my car.

Can I tell you the compression ratio is NOT 13:1 in the Hybrid Maverick?

It is between 9 : 1 and 10:1 and the true value is not printed in any manual or made public?

You see. This is an ATKINSON CYCLE engine which is different than a traditional Otto Cycle engine that you are used to.

This means the POWER STROKE is 13:1 and the compression stroke is 30% less by keeping the valves open longer.

Please do a little more reading.
And yes I know what your booklet for your trucklet says and the booklet is incorrect. Ford chose not to define what the Atkinson cycle does in your engine because they are either lazy or somehow feel they have something proprietary. But it's not proprietary.

 

[fossil]

I am not going to argue with anyone ; but when my 24 Mav Lariat hybrid arrives I plan to use 91 octane top tier gas (mostly from Costco) because Ford recommends it and because the engine has a compression ratio of 13.0. It's your car, do what you thing is right; but no one should be telling me what octane I should use in my car.

thought all gen two 2.0l were 10 to 1, oops hybrid, misread, 9.7

 

[Raymundo76]

Can I tell you the compression ratio is NOT 13:1 in the Hybrid Maverick?

It is between 9.5 : 1 and 10:1 and the true value is not printed in any manual or made public?

You see. This is an ATKINSON CYCLE engine which is different than a traditional Otto Cycle engine that you are used to.

This means the POWER STROKE is 13:1 and the compression stroke is 30% less by keeping the valves open longer.

Please do a little more reading.
And yes I know what your booklet for your trucklet says and the booklet is incorrect. Ford chose not to define what the Atkinson cycle does in your engine because they are either lazy or somehow feel they have something proprietary. But it's not proprietary.

At least you did not tell me to use 87 octane; thanks for the info, and have a nice day>

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