I thought Ford was done with a small EV pickup? [⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[huunvubu]

I could see this as a $25K base vehicle

What are you and others here thinking that a base EV Maverick will sell for $25k

The current Maverick XL Hybrid with NO Options price is $26,910 including destination charge (MSRP $25,315).

Ford will need to add in more and much bigger batteries to have the truck have any decent acceleration.

I have a Hybrid Maverick and if I accelerate from a dead stop on a flat surface on electric only it seems to take at least four times the rate as Gas/Electric mode.

This $25k EV Maverick is pure wishful thinking with no basis in reality.

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[Snox801]

Well it's not really insane. You're making money while you can. The automation is coming and in the past there were always new jobs created to make up for the ones lost. It is going to be an issue with the entire earth. Not just United States though because eventually we're going to get to the point where pretty much everything will be done better by a computer or a robot. Then there will be no jobs. Then you're going to have to come up with some way, I notice is going to sound bad, a sort of basic income or something. I'm not sure it'll work out but. Also, I do not feel that $28 an hour is an insane amount of money in the year 2028. It may be more insane that there are people worth 200 billion.

Definitely a subject that can be debated. But those that are worth 200 billion. Have created a product everyone wants and vastly improved our life’s. Heck look at some of the risks they took. I would not be willing to risk what some of them did. Money or family. So they deserve it. Do they need it nope. But I can’t begrudge them. Hope they use it for some good.

 

[Snox801]

Well yes there is an argument that higher wages causes inflation because the wage slaves have more money to spend and inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods. The idea is that increase production will make up for the increase in wages and increase in production does come a lot from automation. Anyone who knows economics knows that the pandemic really did screw up the economy regarding inflation. Most governments around the world aired on the side of caution and spent too much money and people stayed home and saved it and now they all went out and spent it. That combined with supply chain issues and the United States trying to decouple from China regarding many products, including very importantly computer chips, has caused a lot of inflation. People in the United States should be a little happier though, if you look at all the other developed industrialized countries like in Europe, they're inflation rate is generally higher than ours and their growth rate is far lower. The United States is still growing GDP wise while look at Germany. They're at 0.4%. The United States is what 8 times that? As for McDonald's, I would also say the wages are extra high there not just because of the minimum wage but because of wages there are higher generally as are property values etc. I would have to see how much of that big mac price is down to labor.
The EV price being higher isn't going to come down necessarily because of automation, Ford is already proven. They can make a profitable vehicle that sells for 25,000 or less. The cost is simply in the battery. That's where goosing the system, whether people like it or not, and incentivizing a certain product will lead to more demand which will lead to companies wanting to fill that demand and that increase battery supply won't lead to lower prices. Eventually. They're starting to a lot of mining in North America and who knows. Maybe they'll finally come up with solid state batteries that are lighter, more powerful, have no fire hazards and last a lot longer.

I 100 percent agree. They spent to much money. At first can’t blame them it was looking bad. Then spending kept going. Now we hopefully can suck some money out without it getting to bad. Slowly tick up interest rates to historic levels. Let it suck some money and hopefully stem inflation. Especially on goods we need and don’t just want. Like food.
As for the ev truck. I doubt they get to 25k as every part gets more expensive. Even if batteries come down. Plus how long till battery material is the new oil and people scream it’s running out and price gets driven up. I hope they offer one but bet it’s not close to that price. And it’s not for me.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Definitely a subject that can be debated. But those that are worth 200 billion. Have created a product everyone wants and vastly improved our life’s. Heck look at some of the risks they took. I would not be willing to risk what some of them did. Money or family. So they deserve it. Do they need it nope. But I can’t begrudge them. Hope they use it for some good.

Hey, I'm not against people getting very rich again I'm just saying a little balance. Like Elon is upset about paying his workers more than $22 an hour. He risked a certain bit in the early days of Tesla but the vast majority of as wealth is stocks that they gave him as part of his package. Yes and the other way people get a lot of money is family. Although some billionaires don't give their kids anything they just give it away.

 

[Gonzo chris]

I 100 percent agree. They spent to much money. At first can’t blame them it was looking bad. Then spending kept going. Now we hopefully can suck some money out without it getting to bad. Slowly tick up interest rates to historic levels. Let it suck some money and hopefully stem inflation. Especially on goods we need and don’t just want. Like food.
As for the ev truck. I doubt they get to 25k as every part gets more expensive. Even if batteries come down. Plus how long till battery material is the new oil and people scream it’s running out and price gets driven up. I hope they offer one but bet it’s not close to that price. And it’s not for me.

I'm not saying I'm even going to get one yet. I'm sure eventually I'll have one. I would have prefer to wait for a solid state battery. I think. Also the idea is hopefully the batteries would be able to be recycled so they wanted necessarily be running out. I'm not sure what it is but I would be curious to see what the percentage of cost in an EV. Is the battery. The fact that without the engine, transmission, they basically have a reduction gear most of them anyway, fuel system, exhaust system, emissions equipment, etc. Etc. And they are still more expensive. That tells me the battery is really expensive.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I'm not saying I'm even going to get one yet. I'm sure eventually I'll have one. I would have prefer to wait for a solid state battery. I think. Also the idea is hopefully the batteries would be able to be recycled so they wanted necessarily be running out. I'm not sure what it is but I would be curious to see what the percentage of cost in an EV. Is the battery. The fact that without the engine, transmission, they basically have a reduction gear most of them anyway, fuel system, exhaust system, emissions equipment, etc. Etc. And they are still more expensive. That tells me the battery is really expensive.

In short: EV's are about twice as simple to make and maintain than a gas only vehicle; and about three times as simple to build and maintain as a hybrid.

Some people think hybrids are the best of both worlds. In reality you can have the worst of both worlds.

You can't recycle petroleum.
You can recycle battery components.

You can't produce petroleum in your backyard.
You can produce electricity in your backyard.

EV will be the future. No doubt. No debate. Only unknown is how long will it take and at what point people will start saying "Why didn't we go EV sooner?"

Petroleum powered vehicles will probably decline at the same rate as people born in the 1900's.

A few will make it to 2100.
But not many.

 

[Gonzo chris]

In short: EV's are about twice as simple to make and maintain than a gas only vehicle; and about three times as simple to build and maintain as a hybrid.

Some people think hybrids are the best of both worlds. In reality you can have the worst of both worlds.

You can't recycle petroleum.
You can recycle battery components.

You can't produce petroleum in your backyard.
You can produce electricity in your backyard.

EV will be the future. No doubt. No debate. Only unknown is how long will it take and at what point people will start saying "Why didn't we go EV sooner?"

Petroleum powered vehicles will probably decline at the same rate as people born in the 1900's.

A few will make it to 2100.
But not many.

Exactly that's the catch 22 with a hybrid. On one hand, I like the idea of having a smaller battery which makes it cheaper as I have a short commute to work and back. I can most likely do it on electricity alone, especially if I had a PHEV then I would have the gasoline for longer trips. The negative with that is, for most of my daily driving I'm hung around an entire powertrain ( ICE, fuel system, exhaust system etc) for no reason. Fuel tank seems like a big waste of space then. And then you start to figure how you can have AWD with a lot less hardware, packaging becomes so much easier. One motor in the front, one motor back with wires run to them.

 

[son of a ..sven]

In short: EV's are about twice as simple to make and maintain than a gas only vehicle; and about three times as simple to build and maintain as a hybrid.

Some people think hybrids are the best of both worlds. In reality you can have the worst of both worlds.

You can't recycle petroleum.
You can recycle battery components.

You can't produce petroleum in your backyard.
You can produce electricity in your backyard.

EV will be the future. No doubt. No debate. Only unknown is how long will it take and at what point people will start saying "Why didn't we go EV sooner?"

Petroleum powered vehicles will probably decline at the same rate as people born in the 1900's.

A few will make it to 2100.
But not many.

Can't recycle batteries? There are a number of places and a number coming on line: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/09/0...he-question-whatever-happened-to-jb-straubel/

https://insideevs.com/news/684376/r...n-usd-boost-its-us-battery-recycling-efforts/
https://insideevs.com/news/682472/ev-battery-recycling/

if you take the time to read these, it will show that EV battery recycling is happening.

This last one has been put on hold for Pol. reasons: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...-37-million-reduce-ev-battery-recycling-costs

10 to 50 Billion a year in oil and gas subsidizes..https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-budget-targets-us-fossil-fuel-subsidies-2023-03-09/

 

[Gonzo chris]

Can't recycle batteries? There are a number of places and a number coming on line: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/09/0...he-question-whatever-happened-to-jb-straubel/

https://insideevs.com/news/684376/r...n-usd-boost-its-us-battery-recycling-efforts/
https://insideevs.com/news/682472/ev-battery-recycling/

if you take the time to read these, it will show that EV battery recycling is happening.

This last one has been put on hold for Pol. reasons: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...-37-million-reduce-ev-battery-recycling-costs

10 to 50 Billion a year in oil and gas subsidizes..https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-budget-targets-us-fossil-fuel-subsidies-2023-03-09/

He wrote "you can recycle batteries"

 

[son of a ..sven]

He wrote "you can recycle batteries"

did you read one of the posts from above? There are more than one company doing it.

https://insideevs.com/news/682472/ev-battery-recycling/ <<<<<<< this is not the only company recycling batteries.

 

[Snox801]

Hey, I'm not against people getting very rich again I'm just saying a little balance. Like Elon is upset about paying his workers more than $22 an hour. He risked a certain bit in the early days of Tesla but the vast majority of as wealth is stocks that they gave him as part of his package. Yes and the other way people get a lot of money is family. Although some billionaires don't give their kids anything they just give it away.

I do agree wish it could be shared. To defend Elon as if he needs it. I have tried that with my employees, profit sharing and everything. One package even allowed two employees two year in a row to out earn myself. They still were not happy. I think it’s the precedent. But you’re not wrong. Would be very easy for him to do bonuses and get the tax breaks that come with that.
Fun fact a company I worked for was owned by a crazy wealthy man. He also owned another business. All his employees complained an out now much he made. When that company sold. He gave every employee a crazy huge bonus. Even if they only worked that year.
Everyone then seemed to love him. But he sold made insane money and shared it.

 

[Snox801]

In short: EV's are about twice as simple to make and maintain than a gas only vehicle; and about three times as simple to build and maintain as a hybrid.

Some people think hybrids are the best of both worlds. In reality you can have the worst of both worlds.

You can't recycle petroleum.
You can recycle battery components.

You can't produce petroleum in your backyard.
You can produce electricity in your backyard.

EV will be the future. No doubt. No debate. Only unknown is how long will it take and at what point people will start saying "Why didn't we go EV sooner?"

Petroleum powered vehicles will probably decline at the same rate as people born in the 1900's.

A few will make it to 2100.
But not many.

Not sure this is true. Simply not enough evs in everyday American hand to prove they are more reliable. Wait till the rednecks get ahold of them. I know it’s a small sample size but everyone I know who has one has had about the same issues as I’ve cars. We’ll except they don’t work at all in the cold.

 

[Snox801]

Can't recycle batteries? There are a number of places and a number coming on line: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/09/0...he-question-whatever-happened-to-jb-straubel/

https://insideevs.com/news/684376/r...n-usd-boost-its-us-battery-recycling-efforts/
https://insideevs.com/news/682472/ev-battery-recycling/

if you take the time to read these, it will show that EV battery recycling is happening.

This last one has been put on hold for Pol. reasons: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...-37-million-reduce-ev-battery-recycling-costs

10 to 50 Billion a year in oil and gas subsidizes..https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-budget-targets-us-fossil-fuel-subsidies-2023-03-09/

Well let’s be fair. Batteries can not be recycled to the same as before. You lose certain amounts of everything.
So batteries still have many issues same as oil. Let’s acknowledge that both have issues and we more than likely have enough of both to last forever.

 

[Gonzo chris]

did you read one of the posts from above? There are more than one company doing it.

https://insideevs.com/news/682472/ev-battery-recycling/ <<<<<<< this is not the only company recycling batteries.

Im saying the guy you responded did NOT say you can't recycle batteries

 

[son of a ..sven]

Well let’s be fair. Batteries can not be recycled to the same as before. You lose certain amounts of everything.
So batteries still have many issues same as oil. Let’s acknowledge that both have issues and we more than likely have enough of both to last forever.

Can you back that up with facts, examples. My understanding is a lot of the metals and chemicals in used batteries can be used again.

Recycling technologies that use leaching may be able to economically recover high amounts of cobalt, nickel, lithium, and manganese and several facilities are in development in the United States. After smelting or leaching, the recovered metals must be processed further to be made into new batteries.Oct 23, 2023

• Hydrometallurgical recycling is the best available technology because it has high mineral recovery rates and results in low environmental impacts. It uses liquid solutions to separate minerals.
• Direct recycling is still in development but has low environmental impacts and recovers the positive electrode intact, meaning this product skips a step in the battery manufacturing process. Direct recycling has lower lithium recovery rates than hydrometallurgical recycling but is ideal for manufacturing scrap and lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries.
• Pyrometallurgical recycling (smelting) is the least ideal technology because it does not recover lithium, aluminum, or manganese and results in the highest environmental impact. Additionally, the output must go through an extra step of hydrometallurgical refinement before it is ready for battery manufacturing.

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