Battery charging, desulfation...

[Skyline]

I've been at the local Ford dealer twice, with some issues with the A.S.S. that had been shut off by the system due to weak battery. The service rep stated that they've updated the software for the charging system, but would not give details. The second time with he same issue, they just charged the battery, that lasted for about a weak.

Instead of going back to the dealer, I've stopped by my mechanic's garage who did a battery test. Here's the result:

I didn't have time for waiting to charge the battery, but did it at home. My charger showed:

After about half an hour or so, the charger showed this:

What I've gathered, the charger started to charge, increased the voltage to the level to start the de-sulfation. At this point, the charger had been disconnected. Mainly since the landscapers came to clean the leaves from the ground and had to move the truck. One thing I've noticed while moving the truck; both the service panel and the infotainment system had been the brightest it ever had been for the last ten month.

Couple of questions...

Should I disconnect the battery from the truck to do the de-sulfation? The set radio stations are probably lost, but what other things I should be aware of?

Alternatively, Can I de-sulfate without disconnecting the battery?

Thx...

PS: Looking for another dealer service in my area, but at this point, it's hard to trust them...

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[GreyCacti]

Your charger was set to agm

I think the maverick has a standard lead acid battery.
Different termination voltage.
I'd try again with standard chosen.

 

[Skyline]

All car batteries have acid and lead, the exception is Lithium-Ion batteries...

I think you meant flooded battery, MY2023 has AGM battery:

 

[GreyCacti]

All car batteries have acid and lead, the exception is Lithium-Ion batteries...

I think you meant flooded battery, MY2023 has AGM battery:

I thought they had the regular flooded type stock. AGM is better I believe, that's pretty cool.

 

[GPSMan]

I thought they had the regular flooded type stock. AGM is better I believe, that's pretty cool.

It depends on the truck.
Not all Mavericks are the same.

Some EcoBoosts (early on) came with regular batteries. Most came with AGM.

None of the Hybrids come with AGM but it looks like Ford forgot to tell the software that and Hybrid's computer thinks it has AGM. This causes some people to have trouble and others not.

 

[GreyCacti]

It depends on the truck.
Not all Mavericks are the same.

Some EcoBoosts (early on) came with regular batteries. Most came with AGM.

None of the Hybrids come with AGM but it looks like Ford forgot to tell the software that and Hybrid's computer thinks it has AGM. This causes some people to have trouble and others not.

That's a shame. I have a hybrid on order too.
Good news is, if that's the case just replace battery with agm one and the system should charge correctly.

 

[Skyline]

None of the Hybrids come with AGM but it looks like Ford forgot to tell the software that and Hybrid's computer thinks it has AGM. This causes some people to have trouble and others not.

The charging system on the EB 2.0 and the 2.5L hybrid is probably the same, as far as the modules like PCM, BCM and BMS is concerned. The difference between the AGM and the flooded batteries is the charging voltage, that higher with flooded battery than with AGM. Overcharging the AGM batteries shortens the life of the battery and other issues.

The 2.5L hybrid has a small flooded battery and some of the EB 2.0 also came with flooded battery. Due to the similarities between the two models, it probably made more sense for Ford to have the charging system set to flooded battery for both. That would explain the charging/battery issues for the EB 2.0, especially for people, who are driving infrequently and short distances.

Only Ford knows which way the charging system set, but you have a good point in questioning it.

Good news is, if that's the case just replace battery with agm one and the system should charge correctly.

It's doubtful, based on the charging issues with both the EB 2.0 with AGM battery and the Hybrid with flooded battery.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

The charging system on the EB 2.0 and the 2.5L hybrid is probably the same, as far as the modules like PCM, BCM and BMS is concerned. The difference between the AGM and the flooded batteries is the charging voltage, that higher with flooded battery than with AGM. Overcharging the AGM batteries shortens the life of the battery and other issues.

The 2.5L hybrid has a small flooded battery and some of the EB 2.0 also came with flooded battery. Due to the similarities between the two models, it probably made more sense for Ford to have the charging system set to flooded battery for both. That would explain the charging/battery issues for the EB 2.0, especially for people, who are driving infrequently and short distances.

Only Ford knows which way the charging system set, but you have a good point in questioning it.



It's doubtful, based on the charging issues with both the EB 2.0 with AGM battery and the Hybrid with flooded battery.

Irregardless of which battery was installed and which one shows as the one in memory, fully charging the one in truck or the replacement followed by the "new battery installed learn procedure mentioned in manual with truck locked, accessory etc all off including Ford pass for up to 8 hours will update the changing parameters and may or may not up date the battery shown in memory but I would certainly expect it to be.

 

[GPSMan]

That's a shame. I have a hybrid on order too.
Good news is, if that's the case just replace battery with agm one and the system should charge correctly.

I am considering doing this.

 

[GPSMan]

The charging system on the EB 2.0 and the 2.5L hybrid is probably the same, as far as the modules like PCM, BCM and BMS is concerned. The difference between the AGM and the flooded batteries is the charging voltage, that higher with flooded battery than with AGM. Overcharging the AGM batteries shortens the life of the battery and other issues.

The 2.5L hybrid has a small flooded battery and some of the EB 2.0 also came with flooded battery. Due to the similarities between the two models, it probably made more sense for Ford to have the charging system set to flooded battery for both. That would explain the charging/battery issues for the EB 2.0, especially for people, who are driving infrequently and short distances.

Only Ford knows which way the charging system set, but you have a good point in questioning it.



It's doubtful, based on the charging issues with both the EB 2.0 with AGM battery and the Hybrid with flooded battery.

My hybrid "charges" at 14.8 to 15.1 volts.

But the battery "holds" about 12.2 volts.

 

[Skyline]

Ford pass for up to 8 hours will update the changing parameters and may or may not up date the battery shown in memory but I would certainly expect it to be.

Expectation is one thing and what the different modules in the charging system do could be another. Would it be easy to programmatically set the charging voltage? Yes, the BMS could detect the type of battery and BCM adjusts the charging voltage based on the information received from the BMS. Does this work all the times? Maybe not, that would explain why some people have issues with the charging system, while others don't.

The BMS calibrates the battery anytime when the vehicle enters in sleep mode and the current draw is less than 300mA, or 0.3A. That takes about 4 - 6 hours. If the system cannot calibrate the battery for 7 -10 days, some of the system functions are disabled. In my case, it is the auto start/stop had been disabled by the system, did not notice other functions not working as of yet.

My truck is usually in sleep mode for 8 - 10 hours every day, or more during overnight. If I charge it up and leave it in sleep mode, the auto start works for couple of days depending on the charge level. Rinse and repeat, if I want to have this function working.

So, is it the battery not holding the charge, or the charging system does not charge the battery? That's a question that the dealer answers to by recharging the battery...

 

[cyberdog]

Ford's BMS usually only charges to around 80%, and the 12.42 volts on the tester would equal just over 75% SoC (depending upon temperature). Using CCA, 658 CCA of 760 CCA would indicate ~86% charge. - AGM batteries tend to have a slightly higher voltage than Flooded cell batteries. Subtract the electronics load for the post-run 45-ish minutes where the systems stay active, and 75% SoC is within the realm of possibility for a healthy system/battery. I watch my voltages/SoC using a small ultra low-draw BT device, its surprising how much draw the electronics have during that first 45 minutes after the ignition has been on, even if only briefly.

Motorcraft may have nearly the same battery as both AGM and Enhanced Flooded Cell, you might want to check your actual batter to confirm it indicates AGM. Most of us Hybrid owners have an Enhanced Flooded Cell, even though the system is set to AGM. - Supposed supply issues had Ford ultimately install the Flooded Cell in place of the AGM, but that's another can of worms. Apparently, some EB models came with AGM, other with the Enhanced Flood Cell substitute, so no guarantee it's AGM, unless is states AGM on the actual battery.

 

[Skyline]

Motorcraft may have nearly the same battery as both AGM and Enhanced Flooded Cell, you might want to check your actual batter to confirm it indicates AGM.

Yes, I did in #3 post in this thread, it is AGM battery:

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/battery-charging-desulfation.39723/#post-711113

I really don't need to check voltages, since the system disables the auto start/stop, if it deems the battery too weak for enabling it, which is most of the times.

I watch my voltages/SoC using a small ultra low-draw BT device, its surprising how much draw the electronics have during that first 45 minutes after the ignition has been on, even if only briefly

That in itself can substantially drain the battery, especially when it's driven for short distances where not much charging takes place. One would say, that the charging would increase when the SoC is low, but that may not be the case. Today, I drove on the highway for a half an hour to see a Honda dealer, doing so the battery had not been charged sufficiently for the system to enable the auto stop/start. On the way back, another half an hour on the highway, charged up battery enough to enable the auto start/stop. What, one needs to drive an hour to enable auto start/stop?

The chances are that by tomorrow morning, the system will disable the auto start/stop anyway. It's hard to decide, if this is the charging system, or battery issue. Or, maybe its a module issue, be that BSM, BCM, or PCM. Who know at this point? Modules can malfunction and even the data bus could be at fault. They may not be at the point to throw an error/DEC, but enough to mess up charging. Just like my computer that can throw a hissy fit at times...

 

[cyberdog]

Oh, the BMS is partially insane with respect to charging. Coming home with headlights on, radio, and seat heater charges the battery more than on the morning with only the radio on. - You expect faster charging with nothing on, which isn't the case.

After running a my charger in recovery mode, have had a sleep message, and battery between 70-80% SoC, - I had been getting them a couple times a week, since running down the battery detailing the car, having the key on me, which kept the truck from shutting off the electronics.

Probably jinxed myself, but so far so good. That's tells me it's the battery in my case.

 

[Skyline]

Since the last time the battery had been charged, sometimes in late November or early December, I pretty much stopped monitoring, worrying about the battery. Especially since my truck has a battery jumper under the backseat.

To my surprise, the auto stop/start started to work about 10-days ego, regardless of the outdoor temperature. It is still working just fine even when the engine is only halfway warmed up. The displays seem to be brighter and I would swear that the radio is louder at the same settings, even if these are just perceived changes.

The only thing seems viable is what had been stated earlier, "...its a module issue, be that BSM, BCM, or PCM." That and comparing this system to a computer from the '80's, or the '90's and even later, when computers used to be temperamental. Maybe my Mav needed a year to get with the program; come to think of it, it'll be a year old tomorrow. No, there will be no bday cake, just washed it today...

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