265/60-18 Cooper Rugged Trek tires installed

[Montana]

It's a little more than .002" and .79"... isn't it? Yep.

And the Lincoln Nautilus? Same PTU and RDU? Same gearing? Same vehicle weight and distribution? I didn't think so. Almost like the engineers make small changes to the C2 platform to accommodate different vehicle setups? And even if they have the same size wheels, wanna bet they are not 45 pound tires on them?... and, wait for it.... DON'T RUB. I guess we can act like everything in the driveline is exactly the same though... sure! C2 platform doesn't generally mean exact same specs but I'm sure it will be similar (minus gearing). Either way, likely why the MPG is only estimated for 22 for the non hybrids? Thanks for sharing the weight of those ST wheels though. That is equally insane. Probably a reason why they run different setups in the Explorers too. Good info to pass along in the future. Sorry, I didn't know those setups were so heavy, but harassing? C'mon... I'd say resulting to ad-hominem is more of that which you describe than the stance I have taken here. It's a public forum. I've remained constructive - right up until the snarky little quips directed at me...

I'm glad you guys have experience in all this other stuff... and none in lifting trucks.
Never had an issue with your ruining your truck, just the pass off that it won't ruin others and the backtracking in this thread from clearly inexperienced "lifters and off roaders". Ever wonder why you only see this on unibody forums? Sorry it had to be so personal for you, but a little research goes a long way. You'll learn the hard way same as the rest of the ones throwing heavy setups on unibodies on every other forum. Also, ask me how I know? I learned the hard way too. Which is why I did it right when I had my Tacoma and why the information on those forums greatly reflects the information I am trying to give you. And now that I know those lowered running ST wheels would benefit from gearing as well, I guess I can say thanks?

Also, I find it childish that some people feel the need to result to ad-hominem in an attempt to drive their point home. You can insult me all you want with names and it still won't make you right. Not a move I'd result to but it says a lot about someone on here trying to sell products and how customer service might go if you have an issue... Just saying. There is no envy on my end. I run 245/65R17's without rub riding on a safe limit for a reason.

Take care.

Sponsored

 

[Snox801]

I did it need grab a wrong tire size on the maverick tremor my bad. At least I can admit when I’m wrong.
But fact remains that it has a bigger heavy tire than the stock one. But that’s ok right? Where is the line? Or as the last post mention a big heavy tire. Sure it doesn’t rub why because it’s a total different body like saying they won’t rub on an edge but do on a fusion. Same driveline and engine though. How would the driveline know what body it has.

Or in fact as you stated hauling is tough on them. Your own words and they added coolers and gears to them. Mine has a tow package. So you telling me it’s on to haul 4K lbs around while catching g all kinds of wind but I can’t run a slightly brighter tire with no geometry change to suspension? That’s the state that breaks the camels back?
Man you’re just flat wrong. Again why isn’t every 1500 or f-150 losing drivetrains everytime someone throws 33’s on them. Because it’s not at all that stressful.
I better not show you pictures of me hauling 3800lbs in an enclosed trailer all across the country with the 245 tires on it. You will probably stroke out. Or as said better not tell the guys lowering them with wider tires.
At this point knowbody cares what you are gonna say cause your wrong. The fact you still keep thinking that this is somehow worse than a tune is unbelievable to me.
I’m very knowledgeable about how ford tunes and why. I’m telling you this because it proves how little you know. Tuning does in fact put more stress on the drivetrain than bigger wheels and tires . Hence why they manage trq limits and goals as to not break the driveline or wear it faster. First thing most tuners raise or remove is those limits. Hence they can dyno valises to same ho but the 1/4 times and 60’ have such huge gains.
Well and one doesn’t good a warranty. And one does.
As I originally stated and you also I’ll do me you do you. You can tell I am cause I’m doing my truck the way I want it and not jumping on other spouting nonsense and flawing my limp wrists around.

 

[Snox801]

We must remember I fixed this rub issue with a heat gun. One small crease in the inner fender so as I said it barely brushed it. This wasn’t a rubbing wearing things down rub. So that has zero to do with killing my drivetrain. You are not warning anyone. You’re simply trying to be that guy. Acting like you have knowledge when you simply don’t know what your talking about.
And since your knowledge comes from your experience. Cool I’ve crammed as big of tire under every awd or 4x4 I’ve owned. And never an issue so I’m either the luckiest man alive or you wrong.
Again one more time since you must have conveniently forgot about me running the the larger wheels and tires on my edge. That is tuned and had 200k on it. Unless someone snuck by and started swapping my wire out driveline I again must be lucky. I drive a lot for work. Roughly 80k a year so I get to collect a large sample size of miles and setups in a shorter time than most can.

Again I don’t care what you do but to swing on a thread to tell people they a ruining the driveline without any more than the “believe me I know”. Followed by the statement a tune and increasing power 30 percent is not as hard on a driveline as a slightly bigger tire than stock. That’s were you lose all your argument. A quick search of any st forum can show you people tearing up cv axles, drive shafts all kinds of things. Heck I had a tune on my rs they destroyed the front axles in Less than 3 k mile and the clutch. But other have much larger and heavier tires with a lift running around Australia and never have an issue because they kept the stock tune. If your logic was correct. Every one of those would be having issues and not guys like me with stock wheels and tires but tunes.
Remember to make your way in every other thread that someone with a tremor that uses the bigger tires and tell them they need to start saving for new drivetrain.
Oh and maybe make your way to the bronco forums that do indeed have the exact same driveline as us. Quick better go warn them cause I heard the ones that put the bigger tires on are killing the driveline. Oops wait ford performance has been doing it, crap you better warn them.

 

[Snox801]

At this point we have enough data points from the piles of broncos and early mavericks running around with small lifts and bigger tires to know they don’t die at 80k miles like you stated. So either it’s a string of very lucky people who were not wise enough to take your advise or your wrong. But we all know which route you will take because you are the same guy who came on a thread to make such a ridiculous claim which on its face.
Which seems to be perfectly fine adding weight and larger tires to your truck but mine is a bridge that can’t be crossed?

 

[Montana]

I did it need grab a wrong tire size on the maverick tremor my bad. At least I can admit when I’m wrong.
But fact remains that it has a bigger heavy tire than the stock one. But that’s ok right? Where is the line? Or as the last post mention a big heavy tire. Sure it doesn’t rub why because it’s a total different body like saying they won’t rub on an edge but do on a fusion. Same driveline and engine though. How would the driveline know what body it has.

Or in fact as you stated hauling is tough on them. Your own words and they added coolers and gears to them. Mine has a tow package. So you telling me it’s on to haul 4K lbs around while catching g all kinds of wind but I can’t run a slightly brighter tire with no geometry change to suspension? That’s the state that breaks the camels back?
Man you’re just flat wrong. Again why isn’t every 1500 or f-150 losing drivetrains everytime someone throws 33’s on them. Because it’s not at all that stressful.
I better not show you pictures of me hauling 3800lbs in an enclosed trailer all across the country with the 245 tires on it. You will probably stroke out. Or as said better not tell the guys lowering them with wider tires.
At this point knowbody cares what you are gonna say cause your wrong. The fact you still keep thinking that this is somehow worse than a tune is unbelievable to me.
I’m very knowledgeable about how ford tunes and why. I’m telling you this because it proves how little you know. Tuning does in fact put more stress on the drivetrain than bigger wheels and tires . Hence why they manage trq limits and goals as to not break the driveline or wear it faster. First thing most tuners raise or remove is those limits. Hence they can dyno valises to same ho but the 1/4 times and 60’ have such huge gains.
Well and one doesn’t good a warranty. And one does.
As I originally stated and you also I’ll do me you do you. You can tell I am cause I’m doing my truck the way I want it and not jumping on other spouting nonsense and flawing my limp wrists around.

We must remember I fixed this rub issue with a heat gun. One small crease in the inner fender so as I said it barely brushed it. This wasn’t a rubbing wearing things down rub. So that has zero to do with killing my drivetrain. You are not warning anyone. You’re simply trying to be that guy. Acting like you have knowledge when you simply don’t know what your talking about.
And since your knowledge comes from your experience. Cool I’ve crammed as big of tire under every awd or 4x4 I’ve owned. And never an issue so I’m either the luckiest man alive or you wrong.
Again one more time since you must have conveniently forgot about me running the the larger wheels and tires on my edge. That is tuned and had 200k on it. Unless someone snuck by and started swapping my wire out driveline I again must be lucky. I drive a lot for work. Roughly 80k a year so I get to collect a large sample size of miles and setups in a shorter time than most can.

Again I don’t care what you do but to swing on a thread to tell people they a ruining the driveline without any more than the “believe me I know”. Followed by the statement a tune and increasing power 30 percent is not as hard on a driveline as a slightly bigger tire than stock. That’s were you lose all your argument. A quick search of any st forum can show you people tearing up cv axles, drive shafts all kinds of things. Heck I had a tune on my rs they destroyed the front axles in Less than 3 k mile and the clutch. But other have much larger and heavier tires with a lift running around Australia and never have an issue because they kept the stock tune. If your logic was correct. Every one of those would be having issues and not guys like me with stock wheels and tires but tunes.
Remember to make your way in every other thread that someone with a tremor that uses the bigger tires and tell them they need to start saving for new drivetrain.
Oh and maybe make your way to the bronco forums that do indeed have the exact same driveline as us. Quick better go warn them cause I heard the ones that put the bigger tires on are killing the driveline. Oops wait ford performance has been doing it, crap you better warn them.

At this point we have enough data points from the piles of broncos and early mavericks running around with small lifts and bigger tires to know they don’t die at 80k miles like you stated. So either it’s a string of very lucky people who were not wise enough to take your advise or your wrong. But we all know which route you will take because you are the same guy who came on a thread to make such a ridiculous claim which on its face.
Which seems to be perfectly fine adding weight and larger tires to your truck but mine is a bridge that can’t be crossed?

"At least I can admit when I’m wrong."

 

[Snox801]

"At least I can admit when I’m wrong."

Yes I said I got the size wrong. The rest I stand by
The fact I point out several things that are true you said are not in fact makes you wrong.

exhibit A, Tunes don’t put more stress on the drive line than a slightly bigger tire.
That in it self is wrong we have enough data points out to know that. Lots and lots of people with fusions and other unibody focus breaking driveline components with a tune on stock tires. As close as one can get to zero are the guys doing big heavy wheel combos.
I’d wait for your answer of if I was wrong about that. The. Maybe we could get into how much stress a bigger tire would cause over stock. Until then you are the guy that nobody can take seriously because your tire size jump from stick to your 245 is perfectly ok and harmless but a very minor increase to my 265 it’s putting my driveline on deaths door. Gtfo
Maybe I should let the Ford performance guys know the can start removing all the safety features in the tunes to help save driveline when I have them on the phone about adding big heavy tires to cars and trucks.

 

[Snox801]

I’d also be willing to bet that you didn’t bother finding the weight of my rims that are on the lighter side of rims when shopping by several pounds. Which may put the added weight of tires very close to the combo many others are running with heavy rims and 245 tires.
if you did you would have probably posted that info to help back up your claims. Feel free to do. It cause I also would be curious.
One more example that we have for a data point is many of the f-150 run the same rear end as the raptor. Which last I checked ran insanely heavier and much larger tires than a normal f-150. So much bigger they needed different body and suspension to make it fit. Yet comes with a warranty. Man you better email ford again to let them know the grave mistake they made or they will be picking up read drive parts off the road at 80k.

 

[Snox801]

So I did some leg work for you
Your tire weight 45.2 lbs plus your rims.
28lbs. =73.2lbs

Mine
Rims 18.7lbs
Tires 44lbs tire rack 45 lbs discount tire weight.
Total 63.7lbs

Oh man someone should have let you know how much damage you are doing. To your driveline by adding those bigger tire you put on.
Attached are pictures of my weights for components. But we could also both pull one off and weight them. I’m would today if you wanted.

This isn’t to point out you are gonna have issues like you like to do to other with no real way to back it. Just simply to point out that maybe we have more instances that say it’s ok.

 

[Snox801]

Here is what I found on yours.

WOW Never would've looked there

I was only able to find places with one in stock so I kept looking. Somehow I stumbled upon them on Amazon.
I really had a hard time finding rims I liked. If I found the ones I liked either the offset was wrong or they were very heavy. Then I found these and they worked then came finding them anywhere in stock.
I was gonna add the link to them but if I go to order it now says none in stock.

 

[Montana]

All your info is consistently wrong AND it's not JUST about weight. Which I've said multiple times. Revolutions per mile. The fact you still don't understand the difference between rolling resistance and towing or GVW is astonishing.

Lastly, since someone felt the need to compare the 21" setups... those tire/wheel combos with 265/40r21 are STILL much smaller (revolutions per mile) than your 265/60R18s. Are they heavy? Yes... RIP in that category. But you have the whole scope not just one aspect. The 21" setups are closer to a stock revolution per mile by a long shot. 688 vs your 661... Or, since you are fixed on my tires now, 688 vs my 683.

This has only further proven that most people here have no clue what they are doing. You can keep getting angry over it all you want. You made the jump to a big tire combo not knowing what you were doing. /Thread.

 

[Snox801]

Well I did look them up. If you can find another I’m glad to see those
And if you notice that’s bf Goodrich’s site. I would assume they would be more accurate than tire rack. As the rack has been know for a while to be off.
but again don’t provide anything yourself just tell people they are wrong and go about your day.
Or you could post your own findings.

By your logic not only am I wrong, now ford has been wrong. And even now bf Goodrich is wrong.
Or what happened is you said something that is totally wrong.
When provided with data you simply ignore it or say that it’s wrong.
Maybe in all your wisdom you could give us a different tire weight. But you are gonna have to shave off a decent amount to make up the extra weight. Or come back to reality and say oh wow didn’t know your rims where that light.
Which is it? If the weight is the big issue and mine are the same weight or lighter what make yours a better setup?
Please explain in detail not just continue to tell me I’m wrong and that you knowledgeable is special.
I’d actually be more than willing to have an ah ha moment that’s how we learn.
But I’ve proviided weights of tires and rims you have not.

 

[Snox801]

I’ll just point out in case you can’t see I offered tire weight from my manufacturer website for my tire and the same from yours. Now what can you say about mine being to heavy? Plus my rims are lighter so by your logic your drivetrain is screwed. Sure wish you luck. Or just drive it knowing it won’t be an issues and enjoy. Cause you have amazing setup. Just maybe you should be a bit easier on people who don’t run your approved setups

 

[Montana]

Well I did look them up. If you can find another I’m glad to see those
And if you notice that’s bf Goodrich’s site. I would assume they would be more accurate than tire rack. As the rack has been know for a while to be off.
but again don’t provide anything yourself just tell people they are wrong and go about your day.
Or you could post your own findings.

By your logic not only am I wrong, now ford has been wrong. And even now bf Goodrich is wrong.
Or what happened is you said something that is totally wrong.
When provided with data you simply ignore it or say that it’s wrong.
Maybe in all your wisdom you could give us a different tire weight. But you are gonna have to shave off a decent amount to make up the extra weight. Or come back to reality and say oh wow didn’t know your rims where that light.
Which is it? If the weight is the big issue and mine are the same weight or lighter what make yours a better setup?
Please explain in detail not just continue to tell me I’m wrong and that you knowledgeable is special.
I’d actually be more than willing to have an ah ha moment that’s how we learn.
But I’ve proviided weights of tires and rims you have not.

I’ll just point out in case you can’t see I offered tire weight from my manufacturer website for my tire and the same from yours. Now what can you say about mine being to heavy? Plus my rims are lighter so by your logic your drivetrain is screwed. Sure wish you luck. Or just drive it knowing it won’t be an issues and enjoy. Cause you have amazing setup. Just maybe you should be a bit easier on people who don’t run your approved setups

Discount is wrong then. Good catch. @Discount Tire you should update your website because this is what you have:

And I've never advised anyone to get MY tires. In fact, I've done the opposite (many times) because I saw the loss and knew it was the limit. They are without a doubt the limit for tires on these trucks because of their weight and the revolutions per mile you compromise with the size. Now I'm really glad I opted for a lighter and slimmer wheel. I've always ran lighter Wildpeaks and should have on this truck. Even when asked on my own build log "do you recommend the KO2's?" I said no. The trade off isn't worth it - which is exactly what I said in my initial posting here. All you two have done is manage to turn this into an argument where you are completely ignoring the other factors.

Yes, 99% of aftermarket setups are heavier than stock. It's no secret and mine is one of them. It's the limit for the driveline. Your tire weight was NEVER the ONLY factor here. Mine isn't either. For the 100th time.

Again, weight is not everything. Revolutions per mile and tire width. How many times do I have to say that is more important than weight alone? Which is why the 21" argument fell on it's face, which is why your vendetta against 245's now falls on it's face, and literally the entire point I've been trying to make since my first post but two people now so far have tried to derail so far and fixate on ONE single aspect while ignoring the other two that make both wider and taller setups harder on drivelines. It's not a question - it's widely well known. It's physics.

https://www.transmissiondigest.com/transmissions-oversized-tires/

Hence, why gearing comes up once you go beyond certain point (my tire size and ones similar including the 265/40R21's). You can debate this all you want and I apologize if I was incorrect about my own tire weight, but the rest of literally everything I have said holds true. Are you really going to continue combatting physics? Your setup is beyond the safe limits for the drivelines gearing. Your tune does not compensate for the changes the way you think it does. That article alone is basically the written in crayon version of everything I have been trying to tell you. Ignoring me is fine - ignoring physics? Good luck.

 

[Snox801]

So let me get this straight my setup is lighter, check, and will actually spin less time around for the same mile driven than yours but yours is the safe limit and mine is not because the number on the side?
This cleary makes zero sense. You even stated that the driveline is not setup for the weight. So now mine are ok because they are less mass than your and you said yours are the limit.
What about the guys who got the biggest tire size from ford with the non towing gear ratio? Are they now in trouble or do I have the same final drive as them with my gears being lower and my tires taller I just have added cooling. But still not safe. Just to many holes in your logic for this to work. Let’s just say your tire imho are safe. Mine are safe and everything will be fine. I know guys running heavier than mine setups with the 245’s with out the tow package. So the gearing would load the system more.
They have zero issues at 100 k.
And as someone who has ran a dyno before I’m still a firm believer that an engine loaded give up nothing to a non loaded engine.

 

[Snox801]

At least you admit the trade off is not worth it. But that is subjective. It’s not worth it to you. To me it’s 100 percent worth it. Especially if your sitting stuck in a spot you know you didn’t have to be and having the headache of getting a tow truck, or tractor to get your out.
Again two things can be true at once. It may not be worth it to you but it is for me and others. But it will not be to much for the drivetrain. Not gonna happen. My business partner has had one since summer July ish. He already has 62k miles on it. So we may should be able to know if he has any problems in short order.
I have no issues with 245 at all. But if width has such a big drag over the others it would show in mpgs very fast. Especially if it had enough drag to over tax the driveline. I wouldn’t be able to get even in the same ballpark for mpg as your setup. But I seem to be tracking about the same as everyone who runs a larger setups.
I have a firm grasp on your said physics. The problem is your data. You have no way of measuring the rolling resistance between different tires. And the compounds they use. You can get a wider tire to have less rolling resistance than another. If all this equal yes wider will produce more resistance. But is it more enough resistance in mine to over take you setup being that much heavier? That is the big issue you are stating things as fact which indeed are not. You have no data on those to back it up. One arrival you link is stating common things but doesn’t always hold true. For instance how can say a 245 tire like the hankook Ventus have such a better rolling resistance that a 235 cup 2. Easy it’s the compound.
Listen I’m not saying your wrong with the logic my problem is you have stated as fact that it cause significant increase in wear on the drivetrain over your setup. Which is not only not true but mine may actually be better. It’s lighter and has less rotations per mile. Rolling resistance mine may indeed be more but neither one of us could know for sure. We could do a somewhat test and drive them together on the highway for the same distance and see who true mileage is better that would be one way. But still not perfect.

Sponsored