Y'all are wrong about ethanol (with photos)

[GPSMan]

There is a lot to figure in when figuring how much energy is consumed to make ethanol. For instance the fertilize it takes to crown the corn or sugar cane ( made from natural gas). There are obvious points like fuel to heat the feedstocks, or for farm equipment to farm the land feedstocks are raised on. Then the transportation of feedstocks to refineries. Certain lobbies will even tell you ethanol makes gasoline cheaper. Except they compare gallon to gallon where ethanol requires 1.3 gallons to match the energy in one gallon of gasoline.
If ethanol were very efficient......it would be used to MAKE ethanol. But it is not. Cheaper energy is used for that.

This is not a fair post.
How much gasoline (or diesel) does it take to move crude oil from Saudi Arabia to Minnesota?

Many times more than the fuel required to move the corn that GREW in Iowa.
Any reasonable person can figure that out.

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[GPSMan]

Just saying:

Gasoline is probably dirtier than you thought and ethanol is probably cleaner than you thought.

The well-educated, excepted.

 

[realshelby]

Welcome to the ignore list.

 

[haycraftzack622]

Yes. When your tank has 20% or 40% water it's going to create issues. No doubt. But in poor regions they can burn 160 proof (20% water) in stock engines.

How big of a buffoon do you have to be to get more than 20% water by volume in your gas tank?

A lot of people are dumb and let that much water get in their gas tank

 

[scottp01]

I've run E15 for about 1/2 of the 150k miles in the Fiesta I had and gave to my step daughter who is still driving it and never had any issues with the fuel system or engine (at least until the mechanic blew the motor trying to change the timing belt).

I'm getting within 1 MPG with 88 Octane E15 as I get with regular unleaded. Unless you're leaving fuel sit for long periods, personally I don't think an extra 5% ethanol is going to cause issues.

The only exception I would think would be hybrid owners who don't drive enough to keep the fuel fresh.

 

[jsus]

Gasoline is probably dirtier than you thought

Is that possible? People think gasoline is less "dirty" than it could be?

 

[GPSMan]

Is that possible? People think gasoline is less "dirty" than it could be?

I'm going with "maybe".

 

[T4731]

It took very little effort.
And really wasn't intentional.
It was just happenstance.


Just saying: however you think ethanol harms your engine, gasoline harms it worse.

The MPG is not debatable. The energies of the two substances are not equal. If the cost were one-third less because the energy is one-third less, it would be on par with gasoline.

But it usually isn't. So there's no incentive for most folks in most locations. Back in the build-boom years 2005-2012 I could often buy E-85 for 85 cents a gallon even when gas was $3.

It’s because ethanol was greatly subsidized. Other downside to ethanol is it takes quite a bit of energy and water to produce ethanol.

 

[GPSMan]

I do think ethanol labeled as an "alternate fuel" is accurate.

The best thing ever? Far from.
Harmful when used properly, no.

Toxic to wildlife or humans when diluted with plain water? No. There's no practical way to dilute an oil or gasoline spill to make it non-toxic.

Ethanol is inherently cleaner.

 

[GPSMan]

It’s because ethanol was greatly subsidized. Other downside to ethanol is it takes quite a bit of energy and water to produce ethanol.

But not subsidized as much as the oil and gas industry. And it takes energy for crude oil refining. You forgot that part.

 

[GPSMan]

Put farmers and tractors (relatively inexpensive) and soldiers and tanks in the middle east (relatively expensive) off the table.

At the REFINERY LEVEL ONLY
(Apples to Apples)

To refine gasoline requires 118,000 btu of fossil fuel heat and 6.0 kWh of fossil fuel electricity per 100,000 btu of gasoline produced. (6 kWh would drive an EV about 24 miles with minimal accessories on) so consider that 24 miles "wasted".

To refine corn into ethanol it requires 32,900 btu of fossil fuel per 100,000 btu of ethanol and 0.75 kWh (some say as low as 0.4 kWh but lets go with the higher) of fossil fuel electricity (Would drive an EV 3 miles) so consider that 3 miles "wasted".

So hands down, ethanol by far is more energy efficient to refine than gasoline. Part of the reason is living organisms are doing some of the work for you, and really, truly, producing some of heat for your process as well. The living yeasts generate heat, just like your body does and some of that heat can be captured with heat exchangers to help (not fully) drive the process.

 

[DaveMave]

You're wrong about the spelling of the word "y'all".

And about the audience you think you're correcting.

Neither Maverick powertrain is rated beyond E10-E15, thus few on here give ethanol much thought...

Y’all is singular.
“All y’all” is the plural.

 

[GPSMan]

Y’all is singular.
“All y’all” is the plural.

Sorry. My bad.

 

[T4731]

But not subsidized as much as the oil and gas industry. And it takes energy for crude oil refining. You forgot that part.

Cornel University Study. Seems to me as I recall The United States was a surplus oil producer up until fairly recently.

• Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way," Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU."
• Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price."
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[jsus]

But not subsidized as much as the oil and gas industry. And it takes energy for crude oil refining. You forgot that part.

Have we ever gone to war over corn?

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