Cannot take care of Business

[Dfergys]

I worked in retail for 46 years. We had a saying to our competitors and suppliers that could not keep up with the demand of their goods or services. “They need to get their business DOWN to where they can handle it!” That is where Ford is at right now.
The demand for the small hybrid truck will be covered by Ford’s competition, if Ford can not get their act together. Really a shame not to be able to take care of your customers.

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[710-oil-614]

Ford does not want to sell you a Hybrid maverick for $25k. The Hybrid Maverick is in the line up to satisfy CAFE standards for their trucks. What they are producing is exactly what they want to produce.

They have their business DOWN.

Other companies are free to sell $25k hybrid trucks (you see how many are).

 

[MinntoMich]

Ford does not want to sell you a Hybrid maverick for $25k. The Hybrid Maverick is in the line up to satisfy CAFE standards for their trucks. What they are producing is exactly what they want to produce.

Yes I suppose that's true.
The attraction of the Maverick, at least for me, was the hybrid powertrain and low price point. Even if its a "cheap" quality build it still can't be beat

I thought the supply chain disruptions from whatever the cause were the real reason that Ford couldn't satisfy demand... not a CAFE standard.
It's just a little disappointing to read, hear or realize that the chance of myself or others getting the Maverick they ordered has been reduced to what seems to be a lottery governed by a corporate CAFE target.

I'm thinking if the dealer network or Ford had told the buying public what you and I both stated the demand for the hybrid would have been less enthusiastic, a lot less. Expectations would have been managed.

Still looking forward to mine but not so much the possible 400+ day wait.

The lack of a long wait makes the EB seem the better option, especially given that the price difference no longer exists.

 

[JBryant]

If all Hybrid orders were switched to EB, you could bet that then the EB would be hard to get and the Hybrids would be plentiful within a few short months

 

[JimParker256]

Ford does not want to sell you a Hybrid maverick for $25k. The Hybrid Maverick is in the line up to satisfy CAFE standards for their trucks. What they are producing is exactly what they want to produce.

They have their business DOWN.

Other companies are free to sell $25k hybrid trucks (you see how many are).

So, you're saying Ford could somehow satisfy the CAFE standards without selling a single Maverick Hybrid? Just having it in the lineup is good enough? I thought they actually factored in the number of such vehicles sold in determining the "average" fleet economy. I thought they were selling the Maverick Hybrid so as to enable them to produce even more F150s where they make all the profits?

 

[jsus]

So, you're saying Ford could somehow satisfy the CAFE standards without selling a single Maverick Hybrid? Just having it in the lineup is good enough? I thought they actually factored in the number of such vehicles sold in determining the "average" fleet economy. I thought they were selling the Maverick Hybrid so as to enable them to produce even more F150s where they make all the profits?

They don't want to sell them.

They've established an allocation they feel comfortable selling. At this time, it's become clear that is much lower than actual demand/interest.

Those statements are not in conflict.

 

[JimParker256]

They don't want to sell them.

They've established an allocation they feel comfortable selling. At this time, it's become clear that is much lower than actual demand/interest.

Those statements are not in conflict.

OR, they just can't build them because they can't get the materials. The high voltage batteries require a lot of relatively rare elements that are in extremely high demand right now.

I can't help believing that as a for-profit company answering to their stockholders, Ford just doesn't want to sell move of a vehicle that they invested literally millions of dollars developing. That just doesn't compute. I'm as frustrated as everyone else about having to wait - and likely NOT getting the two hybrids I have on order - but I just can't see a rational case for "they don't want to build them."

Their planning sucked, for sure. Seems like it should have been easy to predict that a 40 mpg truck would be popular...

 

[710-oil-614]

They don't want to sell them.

They've established an allocation they feel comfortable selling. At this time, it's become clear that is much lower than actual demand/interest.

Those statements are not in conflict.

Exactly and current standards are rolled back from (5%) when they first introduced the concept January 2019 to now (1.5%).

Ford doesn't want you to buy a $25k hybrid. They want you to buy a $65k F150.

 

[710-oil-614]

OR, they just can't build them because they can't get the materials. The high voltage batteries require a lot of relatively rare elements that are in extremely high demand right now.

I can't help believing that as a for-profit company answering to their stockholders, Ford just doesn't want to sell move of a vehicle that they invested literally millions of dollars developing. That just doesn't compute. I'm as frustrated as everyone else about having to wait - and likely NOT getting the two hybrids I have on order - but I just can't see a rational case for "they don't want to build them."

Their planning sucked, for sure. Seems like it should have been easy to predict that a 40 mpg truck would be popular...

I absolutely can't help but believe a for-profit company answering to stockholders telling them that the margins on a $25k hybrid truck are non-existent and that will all of the recalls, transit issues, and delays they are a loss leader to get customers in the Ford door and that they are going to limit the sales to what is necessary to satisfy CAFE/SAFE standards.

And the battery pack in the hybrid is miniscule. Ford did underestimate the demand for the truck - but they never intended to build more than they are right now. The EB is fairly efficient in its own right and by dropping the focus and pulling their passenger vehicle sales into the light truck category they did wonders for their efficiency numbers.

They built about 84,000 mavericks last year.
They built 155,000 Broncos
They built about 500,000 F150s

 

[Tremors]

Their planning sucked, for sure. Seems like it should have been easy to predict that a 40 mpg truck would be popular...

Popular and profitable are two completely different things. Also, every Mav sold is taking from the Escape hybrid, and there's tons of those on the lot. Then there's the IRA build up ...YOWZA!!!

 

[jsus]

OR, they just can't build them because they can't get the materials. The high voltage batteries require a lot of relatively rare elements that are in extremely high demand right now.

I can't help believing that as a for-profit company answering to their stockholders, Ford just doesn't want to sell move of a vehicle that they invested literally millions of dollars developing. That just doesn't compute. I'm as frustrated as everyone else about having to wait - and likely NOT getting the two hybrids I have on order - but I just can't see a rational case for "they don't want to build them."

Their planning sucked, for sure. Seems like it should have been easy to predict that a 40 mpg truck would be popular...

Then you don't understand the lengths that they will go to in order to 1) comply with CAFE/CARB standards so as to not pay fines; 2) be able to sell more high margin large trucks (F-Series, Expedition, etc.).

Further, as far as new vehicle programs go, Maverick itself hardly cost anything. The C2 platform already existed, the powertrains (short of the revised eCVT for Maverick Hybrid) already existed. The assembly plant/production line already existed, building Bronco Sport on the C2 platform. A substantial portion of the financial and time costs of developing a new model was already done for them.

Maverick exists to capitalize on existing C2 development and excess plant capacity, while providing an entry level not just car but pickup into Ford's lineup, while offering that hybrid option 1) to lure in customers; 2) to meet emissions standards.

As much as it's easy to say that, in hindsight, it's obvious the hybrid option would blow up in popularity, keep in mind that hybrids have not traditionally been terribly popular, for Ford or anyone in the industry. 2023 will be the 20th model year Ford has offered hybrids. And yet customers tend not to show up at Ford dealers looking for a hybrid. Many would rather have the 2.0L EB, even many on here think they need the extra HP just for scooting around town...

But none of that is the most damming part. F-150 Lightning production? Originally scheduled for 40,000 units/year, bumped up to 150,000 units/year. Mustang Mach-E? Started around the same, now projected to be up to 200,000 units/year (don't believe that includes the China plant, just Cuautitlán in Mexico). Both of these substantial production rate increase were announced during the pandemic, during the supply chain crisis.

Note that total Maverick production is still expected to be closer to 100,000/year with no mention of investments to increase either overall production or hybrid production. Sure sounds like if they wanted to, if they saw value there, if they saw an RoI, they would have announced similar substantial increases in Maverick (or NA C2 in general) hybrid production capacity. But not a peep.

Valencia, Spain, has increased C2 FHEV powertrain production (specifically new engine production and increased battery pack capacity), but not the plants that supply NA.

F-150 Lightning increase: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/13/for...of-electric-f-150-lightning-pickup-truck.html

Mustang Mach-E: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...targets-200-k-units-per-year-2023/6467257001/

VEP FHEV increase: https://media.ford.com/content/ford...-in-on-electrification-with-new-hybrid-e.html

Again, hybrids have never been terribly popular, especially in North America, thus investment has been minimal. They've been an ends to a mean, not a desirable product. I say this as someone whose new vehicle search last year had a floor of a FHEV, if not a PHEV or BEV, but understand that I am the exception.

So, customers aren't terribly excited about hybrids overall, with Maverick seeming to be a rare exception. On top of that, Ford, and the industry overall, are moving toward a fully electric future. Please explain why shareholders would be demanding that Ford invest more money in sourcing and production of hybrid powertrain components, when there is no long-term ROI.

Shareholders would rather Ford 1) prioritize hybrid production to meet emissions regulations and market demand (which is lower in NA); 2) sell all the large, high-margin trucks they can; 3) prioritize investments in BEV development and production, as that's the outlook for a profitable future.

 

[CTYankee]

On Friday, April 1, 2022, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg unveiled new CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards for 2024-2026 model year passenger cars and light-duty trucks. These new standards will require new vehicles sold (emphasis added) in the US to average at least 40 miles per gallon.

Source: New CAFE Standards and Implications - CAR (cargroup.org)

EB's help with CAFE but it's the hybrids that will get the average up to the required level.

 

[JimParker256]

Source: New CAFE Standards and Implications - CAR (cargroup.org)

EB's help with CAFE but it's the hybrids that will get the average up to the required level.

Exactly! It costs almost the same to build a Maverick EB as the Hybrid, which has nearly 2X the impact on CAFE. It just amazes me how many people on this forum are salivating over the Maverick hybrid, yet seem to truly believe in this malevolent corporate scheme to deprive them of it, and go to extreme lengths to rationalize their feelings. In any case, I'm done discussing this.

 

[JimParker256]

Popular and profitable are two completely different things. Also, every Mav sold is taking from the Escape hybrid, and there's tons of those on the lot. Then there's the IRA build up ...YOWZA!!!

OK - not quite done... There's at least 3 Hybrid Mavericks that would be sold (the one I bought, and the two I still have on order) that are NOT taking an order from the Escape Hybrid. That vehicle was nowhere on my radar. I was looking at small trucks. So if anything, the Mav Hybrid brought a potential Toyota/Nissan truck buyer to Ford. (My first ever Ford truck, by the way, having owned numerous Chevys.)

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