Rear Sway Bars - Learn me somethin?

[r0tax]

I'm pretty sure I want/need a rear sway bar.
But what one?
Steeda, Good Win.
How stiff? Is the 350# setting on the Steeda enough of a difference to the Maverick? Will I want it in 450# mode?
Is 382# on the Good Win light enough, if the 490# setting is too stiff? Is the 610# setting where I'll want to live, or is this just a track/autoX setting?
Is there such thing as 'too stiff' if I'm seeking a slight bias towards oversteer?

Mainly I want to reduce some understeer tendancy when the Maverick is at its limit in a corner.
I have Lobo, so already a few inches lower and stiffer; how will that play into the stiffness preference?

Basically, would I be happy with the Steeda at 450#, or even 350#?.
Or would I be missing out on something with the Goodwins 490# (or even 610#) setting? Would I ever need/want to be at less than 382# (the min on Goodwin)?

Mostly trying to wrap my head around the weights and their effects on the vehicle/handling.
What happens at the extremes? Do you end up spinning out in oversteer at some point? Is that much of a concern on an AWD that is FWD biased already?
I've driven some overpowered-to-weight RWD in a V8 S10, I know bad things can happen on ice with too much oversteer.... But I've also driven some AWD/4WD in the loose / snow, and I've never found 'too much oversteer' with 4 driven wheels, it will always 'pull' itself out of a oversteer mistake.

Anyway...

Steeda
Good Win

Any other options?
I've already seen a bit of discussion on tubular vs solid, and some pros n cons in that area alone.


If anyone can provide real world feedback on handling/feel.
And your supporting/related mods (ex: springs).

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[Pete Roberts]

Add Camber to the front wheels 1/2 to 3/4 negative well help.

 

[tj@steeda]

I'm pretty sure I want/need a rear sway bar.
But what one?
Steeda, Good Win.
How stiff? Is the 350# setting on the Steeda enough of a difference to the Maverick? Will I want it in 450# mode?
Is 382# on the Good Win light enough, if the 490# setting is too stiff? Is the 610# setting where I'll want to live, or is this just a track/autoX setting?
Is there such thing as 'too stiff' if I'm seeking a slight bias towards oversteer?

Mainly I want to reduce some understeer tendancy when the Maverick is at its limit in a corner.
I have Lobo, so already a few inches lower and stiffer; how will that play into the stiffness preference?

Basically, would I be happy with the Steeda at 450#, or even 350#?.
Or would I be missing out on something with the Goodwins 490# (or even 610#) setting? Would I ever need/want to be at less than 382# (the min on Goodwin)?

Mostly trying to wrap my head around the weights and their effects on the vehicle/handling.
What happens at the extremes? Do you end up spinning out in oversteer at some point? Is that much of a concern on an AWD that is FWD biased already?
I've driven some overpowered-to-weight RWD in a V8 S10, I know bad things can happen on ice with too much oversteer.... But I've also driven some AWD/4WD in the loose / snow, and I've never found 'too much oversteer' with 4 driven wheels, it will always 'pull' itself out of a oversteer mistake.

Anyway...

Steeda
Good Win

Any other options?
I've already seen a bit of discussion on tubular vs solid, and some pros n cons in that area alone.


If anyone can provide real world feedback on handling/feel.
And your supporting/related mods (ex: springs).

This may be better suited for our tech/engineering team ... happy to help put you in contact with them, you can reach me at [email protected] & we'll make a connection!

Best,

TJ

 

[basicUse]

I'm pretty sure I want/need a rear sway bar.
But what one?
Steeda, Good Win.
How stiff? Is the 350# setting on the Steeda enough of a difference to the Maverick? Will I want it in 450# mode?
Is 382# on the Good Win light enough, if the 490# setting is too stiff? Is the 610# setting where I'll want to live, or is this just a track/autoX setting?
Is there such thing as 'too stiff' if I'm seeking a slight bias towards oversteer?

Mainly I want to reduce some understeer tendancy when the Maverick is at its limit in a corner.
I have Lobo, so already a few inches lower and stiffer; how will that play into the stiffness preference?

Basically, would I be happy with the Steeda at 450#, or even 350#?.
Or would I be missing out on something with the Goodwins 490# (or even 610#) setting? Would I ever need/want to be at less than 382# (the min on Goodwin)?

Mostly trying to wrap my head around the weights and their effects on the vehicle/handling.
What happens at the extremes? Do you end up spinning out in oversteer at some point? Is that much of a concern on an AWD that is FWD biased already?
I've driven some overpowered-to-weight RWD in a V8 S10, I know bad things can happen on ice with too much oversteer.... But I've also driven some AWD/4WD in the loose / snow, and I've never found 'too much oversteer' with 4 driven wheels, it will always 'pull' itself out of a oversteer mistake.

Anyway...

Steeda
Good Win

Any other options?
I've already seen a bit of discussion on tubular vs solid, and some pros n cons in that area alone.


If anyone can provide real world feedback on handling/feel.
And your supporting/related mods (ex: springs).

Short answer:
the different settings imo are for different levels of tire. The stickier the tire the more understeer you will feel and the further on the sway bar you can go. The maverick should not let you over steer to far. It is FWD bias and will use rwd for traction like when you start spinning. though that front weight bias is crazy with an empty bed. on black ice it totally will and a sway bar won't help that.
You actually get less grip with a stiffer sway bar, but it will feel like the opposite since you will feel the limit more easily.
It kinda depends on what your setup and use is wether 350 450 etc will work, and tires, and alignment etc.
The steeda one is hollow (chromoly) i think since that's the definition of tubular and the good win is solid which i prefer. Hollow bar reminds me of a torsion beam.

 

[basicUse]

Since you are on a lobo already you might just go for the good win, you already have a performance machine, just needs some Michelin Latitude Sport 3 or pirellia p zero or something with 220 tread wear and you will feel all the understeer in the world

 

[Maverick123]

Sorry, no experience installing a bar on a Maverick but if the info on the steeda site is correct the OEM rear bar is 270# and theirs goes 280#, 350# and 450#. That gives you range to experiment and find what you like and adjust for different circumstances (daily use vs a track day).

I'd hesitate to have a super stiff rear bar on a daily driver and especially on a pickup, the rear end is usually pretty light to begin with (maybe the Maverick is different, I've never looked up the weight distribution). I mean, it's fun to have a playful tail-happy setup in certain cases, but unlike understeer which is benign and self-correcting, oversteer can easily catch you off guard and bad things can happen real quick if it does

 

[Chops]

I'm pretty sure I want/need a rear sway bar.
But what one?
Steeda, Good Win.
How stiff? Is the 350# setting on the Steeda enough of a difference to the Maverick? Will I want it in 450# mode?
Is 382# on the Good Win light enough, if the 490# setting is too stiff? Is the 610# setting where I'll want to live, or is this just a track/autoX setting?
Is there such thing as 'too stiff' if I'm seeking a slight bias towards oversteer?

Mainly I want to reduce some understeer tendancy when the Maverick is at its limit in a corner.
I have Lobo, so already a few inches lower and stiffer; how will that play into the stiffness preference?

Basically, would I be happy with the Steeda at 450#, or even 350#?.
Or would I be missing out on something with the Goodwins 490# (or even 610#) setting? Would I ever need/want to be at less than 382# (the min on Goodwin)?

Mostly trying to wrap my head around the weights and their effects on the vehicle/handling.
What happens at the extremes? Do you end up spinning out in oversteer at some point? Is that much of a concern on an AWD that is FWD biased already?
I've driven some overpowered-to-weight RWD in a V8 S10, I know bad things can happen on ice with too much oversteer.... But I've also driven some AWD/4WD in the loose / snow, and I've never found 'too much oversteer' with 4 driven wheels, it will always 'pull' itself out of a oversteer mistake.

Anyway...

Steeda
Good Win

Any other options?
I've already seen a bit of discussion on tubular vs solid, and some pros n cons in that area alone.


If anyone can provide real world feedback on handling/feel.
And your supporting/related mods (ex: springs).

I’m going to weigh my Moonstone wheels tomorrow. I know they are not as light as world class Italian rally wheels (27lbs), but I’m hoping they’re not 40lb anchors.

Do lighter wheels reduce understeer?

“Yes, heavier wheels can increase understeer in a vehicle. Here's why:

- Increased Rotational Inertia: Heavy wheels have higher rotational inertia, making them harder to accelerate, decelerate, or turn. This can reduce the responsiveness of the front wheels, leading to understeer, where the car resists turning and tends to go straight.

- Altered Weight Distribution: Heavier wheels add unsprung weight, which can affect the balance of the car. In front-wheel-drive vehicles, extra weight on the front axle can exacerbate understeer by overloading the front tires, reducing their grip during cornering.

- Suspension Dynamics: Heavier wheels put more stress on the suspension, potentially causing slower weight transfer and less precise handling, which can contribute to understeer.

However, the extent of understeer depends on other factors like tire grip, suspension tuning, and vehicle setup. Lighter wheels generally improve handling and reduce understeer by allowing quicker responses and better grip.”
Grok3

I really like my Moonstone wheels. Lobo Exclusive.

But…..

 

[Maverick123]

I’m going to weigh my Moonstone wheels tomorrow. I know they are not as light as world class Italian rally wheels (27lbs), but I’m hoping they’re not 40lb anchors.

Do lighter wheels reduce understeer?

(AI nonsense)
Grok3

I really like my Moonstone wheels. Lobo Exclusive. But ...

Yeah, AI can dream up some weird nonsense, and I especially wouldn't trust Elon's

The biggest difference I've noticed going from regular to ultra-light wheels is the improved steering response; I can really feel it. *BUT* this is on a very light car with double A-arm front suspension, and a lightly-assisted hydraulic steering rack which is known for great road feel.

On a Maverick, with electric power steering that gives zero feedback, I'm pretty sure if wouldn't make a noticeable difference.

I'd save my money if I were you, especially if you like the wheels

 

[Chops]

Yeah, AI can dream up some weird nonsense, and I especially wouldn't trust Elon's

The biggest difference I've noticed going from regular to ultra-light wheels is the improved steering response; I can really feel it. *BUT* this is on a very light car with double A-arm front suspension, and a lightly-assisted hydraulic steering rack which is known for great road feel.

On a Maverick, with electric power steering that gives zero feedback, I'm pretty sure if wouldn't make a noticeable difference.

I'd save my money if I were you, especially if you like the wheels

Yep, makes sense. And tires with better grip would help the handling better than any wheel I bet.

 

[Maverick123]

If you enjoy handling and performance driving, there is NO better investment than improving your technique

Do HPDE events with a good club where beginners & intermediates have an instructor in the car with you at all times. You don't need any special setup, only good and fresh brake fluid (I only use Motul RBF600). OEM tires are fine, the less grip you have the more you'll learn

You'll have a great time, and the skills you learn will make you a better driver every day in all conditions

 

[r0tax]

I know the Lobo turbofans are heavy..and it is a bit of a concern. But, I think there are other suspension and handling components that may need some attention first.
Lighter wheels would be more efficient and better for performance all around. I thought I saw numbers like, its possible to shed ~20 lbs PER wheel, which is massive for wheels... But for now I like the turbofan look.

The stock rubber is not great for getting overly aggressive, and will require an upgrade..but I'm going to use up these stockers first. Its good for feeling out the limits, and providing some playfulness though.

I'm still not sure which sway bar, but I bet either will do me OK.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Add Camber to the front wheels 1/2 to 3/4 negative well help.

Thank you for this suggestion as well.

 

[Chops]

I know the Lobo turbofans are heavy..and it is a bit of a concern. But, I think there are other suspension and handling components that may need some attention first.
Lighter wheels would be more efficient and better for performance all around. I thought I saw numbers like, its possible to shed ~20 lbs PER wheel, which is massive for wheels... But for now I like the turbofan look.

The stock rubber is not great for getting overly aggressive, and will require an upgrade..but I'm going to use up these stockers first. Its good for feeling out the limits, and providing some playfulness though.

I'm still not sure which sway bar, but I bet either will do me OK.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


Thank you for this suggestion as well.

Did not mean to distract from the sway bar topic . I want to add a rear sway bar to my Lobo too - and I appreciate this discussion. I’m probably going to make my choice based on color - I have a velocity blue Lobo too

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