Maverick EV reportedly on hold until early next decade [⚠️ LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS]

[Gonzo chris]

Im not going to comment here because it’s Political and we’ve been asked to keep it out, so it is what it is. But in the meantime MFG’s are loosing Millions day on inventory. Ford is smart enough not to invest anymore until the market permits. Mercedes Benz has backed away due to huge losses. Toyota knows that EV’s are not feasible right now and they are not building them.

https://electrek.co/2024/02/26/merc...xX1aytSrlXta&spot_im_highlight_immediate=true

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[Shay]

Ford is smart enough not to invest anymore until the market permits. Mercedes Benz has backed away due to huge losses. Toyota knows that EV’s are not feasible right now and they are not building them.

Little bit of a fact check here...

Ford is continuing to invest in the change over to EV's, just not as fast. Blue Oval City continues construction and models to be built there continue to be in development. The Oakville Ontario Canada plant continues its changeover for EV production for upcoming EV models.

Mercedes-Benz at current has the largest lineup of EVs in the industry. Just check out their website. They're good ones too.

Toyota is in fact building EVs. They sell them right now on dealership lots under Toyota, Subaru, and Lexus brands. More are on the way.

 

[AleeR]

Sorry if this is going too close to political. But thats all that it is.

Ha, we'll agree to disagree. It may feel political on the surface (to some), but the truth is we're holding our guns to a finite resource, one that's slated to run out before the end of this century if we continue with 2022 consumption rates. So we're going to have to figure something out eventually, bottom line. Again, I advocate we do it now rather than later and continue the lead, but if not someone else will (spoiler, it's China).

 

[Shay]

Change happens. In life as a person we are either participating in change or fighting against it. I have found as a general rule life is happier if you're not fighting all the time.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Ha, we'll agree to disagree. It may feel political on the surface (to some), but the truth is we're holding our guns to a finite resource, one that's slated to run out before the end of this century if we continue with 2022 consumption rates. So we're going to have to figure something out eventually, bottom line. Again, I advocate we do it now rather than later and continue the lead, but if not someone else will (spoiler, it's China).

Exactly. I have nostalgia for older cars and I grew up on gas cars obviously. But the change is coming and doing nothing just means that the Chinese are going to run the worldwide auto industry. Maybe Europe will have some brands with higher end luxury and performance models, but that's not really where America's auto industry competes. Hell they're not exactly high-end and I'm not interested in them. But Chinese companies like BYD already have EVs that sell for less than $20,000.
Since I don't drive a lot of miles, I was assuming my next vehicle would be an EV but I saw the Maverick and it kind of caught my eye. Not trying to offend anybody but I thought it kind of looks so ugly It was cute. Or should I at least say plain looking. I guess unassuming and not trying to look to cool would be a better way of putting it. So I started thinking about the hybrid when I'm ready to give my son my car. But I kind of think I want the more power, AWD, and the fully independent suspension...

 

[gp1200x]

I think EVs have a future but just not prime time for long road use. The infrastructure in the North is very weak other than Tesla chargers and they are not cheap. You can get install a home charger for free with the government credit option right now. I installed at two houses (mine and brothers) and have yet to use them but they are 12KW chargers..about the best bang for the buck assuming you have the power available in your box. At CH rates, the electric at best is around 1/2 the cost of gas...not that great even for home charging but at least the chargers are free if you work it out right. I would never buy an EV Maverick truck since the range will probably be significantly less that the gas and hybrid ranges and if you do any towing it drops down at an excessive rate... look at F150 EVs that people tried to tow with. A 150 mile range would ruin any day and any trip. I don't think EVs have a place in working trucks at this point. An EV for a local runabout is the only real practical implementation in the NE until they build up the charging....5 years into it and very little movement other than Tesla chargers. I still would never buy an EV Maverick....but maybe an EV Equinox....GMs pipe dream that is still a dream.

 

[Gonzo chris]

I think EVs have a future but just not prime time for long road use. The infrastructure in the North is very weak other than Tesla chargers and they are not cheap. You can get install a home charger for free with the government credit option right now. I installed at two houses (mine and brothers) and have yet to use them but they are 12KW chargers..about the best bang for the buck assuming you have the power available in your box. At CH rates, the electric at best is around 1/2 the cost of gas...not that great even for home charging but at least the chargers are free if you work it out right. I would never buy an EV Maverick truck since the range will probably be significantly less that the gas and hybrid ranges and if you do any towing it drops down at an excessive rate... look at F150 EVs that people tried to tow with. A 150 mile range would ruin any day and any trip. I don't think EVs have a place in working trucks at this point. An EV for a local runabout is the only real practical implementation in the NE until they build up the charging....5 years into it and very little movement other than Tesla chargers. I still would never buy an EV Maverick....but maybe an EV Equinox....GMs pipe dream that is still a dream.

I agree if I used it for towing or long distance trips I wouldn't really think about it. But 99% of mine is local. Even when I do a little vacation road trip it's usually within a couple hundred miles. Further than that I'm probably flying. From what I gathered charging at home, depending on your electric rates would be about 1/4 of the cost of gas. Obviously anyone who's contemplating it should run the numbers. I don't tell anything. Only thing I put on the back is a bike rack at this point. If I was telling something like an RV long distances I wouldn't even think of an EV truck.

 

[NextTruck]

Little bit of a fact check here...

Ford is continuing to invest in the change over to EV's, just not as fast. Blue Oval City continues construction and models to be built there continue to be in development. The Oakville Ontario Canada plant continues its changeover for EV production for upcoming EV models.

Mercedes-Benz at current has the largest lineup of EVs in the industry. Just check out their website. They're good ones too.

Toyota is in fact building EVs. They sell them right now on dealership lots under Toyota, Subaru, and Lexus brands. More are on the way.

Blue Oval plant was scaled back to reflect future demand, no?

 

[NextTruck]

Im not going to comment here because it’s Political and we’ve been asked to keep it out, so it is what it is. But in the meantime MFG’s are loosing Millions day on inventory. Ford is smart enough not to invest anymore until the market permits. Mercedes Benz has backed away due to huge losses. Toyota knows that EV’s are not feasible right now and they are not building them.

Im not going to comment here because it’s Political and we’ve been asked to keep it out, so it is what it is. But in the meantime MFG’s are loosing Millions day on inventory. Ford is smart enough not to invest anymore until the market permits. Mercedes Benz has backed away due to huge losses. Toyota knows that EV’s are not feasible right now and they are not building them.

If it is being forced and funded with tax dollars largely by the ideology of one political party, how is it not political? If countries are moving more towards socialism and communism, should we adopt and accelerate those philosophies here so we are leaders in that regard?

 

[colinl]

I don't want to US manufacturing to get left behind (my parents are GM and Chrysler retirees), but the writing is on the wall if they don't start moving faster.

Moving faster, how? Everyone except Tesla is having issues selling EVs despite up to $7,000 in tax incentives. Not sure which wall you're reading, but in order to sell things, customers have to desire them and see more value in buying an EV than their alternatives, such as buying hybrids, gas vehicles, or deferring a car purchase entirely.

They are losing money producing them and that is not counting the prior years' factory and design investment. Those costs are already incurred, in the past. From the SEC 10K:
Ford Model e’s 2023 full year EBIT loss was $4.7 billion, a $2.6 billion higher loss than a year ago, with an EBIT margin of negative 79.7%. The EBIT deterioration was primarily driven by lower net pricing, higher material cost (including volume-related obligations for batteries of about $310 million, inflationary cost increases, and higher launch-related supplier costs), higher volume/capacity-related manufacturing and spending related costs, higher warranty costs, and higher engineering costs for future programs, offset partially by lower commodity costs and stronger currencies.

 

[colinl]

If it is being forced and funded with tax dollars largely by the ideology of one political party, how is it not political? If countries are moving more towards socialism and communism, should we adopt and accelerate those philosophies here so we are leaders in that regard?

what he means is that politics is forbidden on this forum, for good reason because it would degrade into mostly politics and little about Mavericks. you will get your post edited or deleted, and then if you continue you're banned. (edit: this is why the thread title contains "admin warning: no politics")

 

[gp1200x]

Blue Oval plant was scaled back to reflect future demand, no?

That and the fact that they were losing their shirts on every EV being sold. They may have made a slim profit on each MachE sale but after figuring out their total costs for EV buildup...they lost money on them...esp the F150 lighting. At least Ford made the initial investment and research but that will become outdated in two years if they can't put in into car/truck sales. Tesla is in a much better position since that is their core business with better scaled production and they have to keep investing to improve their technology to stay in the game.

 

[AleeR]

Moving faster, how? Everyone except Tesla is having issues selling EVs despite up to $7,000 in tax incentives. Not sure which wall you're reading, but in order to sell things, customers have to desire them and see more value in buying an EV than their alternatives, such as buying hybrids, gas vehicles, or deferring a car purchase entirely.

They are losing money producing them and that is not counting the prior years' factory and design investment. Those costs are already incurred, in the past. From the SEC 10K:
Ford Model e’s 2023 full year EBIT loss was $4.7 billion, a $2.6 billion higher loss than a year ago, with an EBIT margin of negative 79.7%. The EBIT deterioration was primarily driven by lower net pricing, higher material cost (including volume-related obligations for batteries of about $310 million, inflationary cost increases, and higher launch-related supplier costs), higher volume/capacity-related manufacturing and spending related costs, higher warranty costs, and higher engineering costs for future programs, offset partially by lower commodity costs and stronger currencies.

EV sales are up every quarter, in spite of demand "slowing". What the domestic manufacturers did was focus too heavily on the luxury segment, and that market has its limits. Very similar to what was happening in the 1910-20's. Most manufacturers focused on the luxury market. Hell, my hometown had 2 of the earliest with Haynes and Apperson. When Ford decided to shift the focus from luxury to the everyday man, suddenly that demand skyrocketed, and a grand swath of the luxury focused manufacturers (including the two I mentioned) couldn't keep up and went bankrupt. I don't think our domestic brands will go away, but they will get left behind. Certainly the transition would take time and will cost a lot of R&D money, but they can't stall forever. I guarantee you China is going to burn a lot of money to take the lead in the market if they think they can, so it won't matter in the short term if they are losing money producing them.

 

[NextTruck]

Ha, we'll agree to disagree. It may feel political on the surface (to some), but the truth is we're holding our guns to a finite resource, one that's slated to run out before the end of this century if we continue with 2022 consumption rates. So we're going to have to figure something out eventually, bottom line. Again, I advocate we do it now rather than later and continue the lead, but if not someone else will (spoiler, it's China).

We were running out in the 1970's as well. What happened?

 

[colinl]

EV sales are up every quarter, in spite of demand "slowing". What the domestic manufacturers did was focus too heavily on the luxury segment, and that market has its limits. Very similar to what was happening in the 1910-20's. Most manufacturers focused on the luxury market. Hell, my hometown had 2 of the earliest with Haynes and Apperson. When Ford decided to shift the focus from luxury to the everyday man, suddenly that demand skyrocketed, and a grand swath of the luxury focused manufacturers (including the two I mentioned) couldn't keep up and went bankrupt. I don't think our domestic brands will go away, but they will get left behind. Certainly the transition would take time and will cost a lot of R&D money, but they can't stall forever. I guarantee you China is going to burn a lot of money to take the lead in the market if they think they can, so it won't matter in the short term if they are losing money producing them.

you have a lot of opinions but no facts. this is probably my last reply to you for each of our sakes.

there are 7 Mach-E local to me for sale between 43k and 45k BEFORE 3k cash incentive and before the (up to) 7k federal tax incentive. considering some of us are driving Mavericks priced in the low 40s I think the data is clear that you're not entirely right about that. there are EVs that are not luxury cars.

second: China's EV sales are plummeting also, and they're losing money. https://www.reuters.com/business/au...-jan-mm-first-such-drop-since-aug-2024-02-07/

third, it's even worse in the used market: https://fortune.com/2023/12/22/no-o...piling-weed-infested-graveyards-tesla-bmw-vw/

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