Interesting Op-Ed in today’s Wall Street Journal (CLOSED DUE TO POLITICS)

[BohemianLikeYou]

I have cordless Power tools and I paid for them and they weren't being legislated or subsidized by the government and thats just one of the problems with the approach being taken today.

If all the subsidies for fuel were taken away....you would probably be crying everytime you filled up your car....like in europe.
Im sure you must be appalled that your gas is being subsidized when you had to pay for your cordless tools.

The Environmental and Energy Study Institute found that the US government alone spends $20 billion every year on direct fossil fuel subsidies. Of that figure, around $16 billion goes towards oil and gas, while the remaining $4 billion benefits the coal industry.

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[KimoCarew]

If all the subsidies for fuel were taken away....you would probably be crying everytime you filled up your car....like in europe.
Im sure you must be appalled that your gas is being subsidized when you had to pay for your cordless tools.

The Environmental and Energy Study Institute found that the US government alone spends $20 billion every year on direct fossil fuel subsidies. Of that figure, around $16 billion goes towards oil and gas, while the remaining $4 billion benefits the coal industry.

Unfortunately, facts and evidence don't matter to people who are informed by media sources who complain privately about how they have to lie to their audience, because their viewers are stupid and the truth will "upset them."

 

[GPSMan]

2 gallons of fuel was burned for every one gallon that goes into your tank.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

It may be possible that EVs will decrease the total amount of electricity used in the US. If it takes 5 KwH to refine one gallon of gas and an EV can travel 20 miles on 5KwH, every gas vehicle that gets worse than 20mpg that is replaced by an EV will actually decrease the total amount of electricity needed. I mean, how many of us actually think about the electricity needed to make the gas in the first place? That figure could be way off but it's food for thought.

I don't think power production will be as big of a deal as people think. ("But California has rolling blackouts already". Aren't they getting better with more EVs on the road?) Power plants don't like speeding up and down so they tend to produce at a constant rate. It should be easy enough to use some smarts and coordinate EV charging (automatically) and help smooth out powerplant output.

Food for thought.

They get better with the rolling blackout when the weather changes and less folks are using their heating and cooling. Did you factor in the amount of fuel ( fossil type) used to generate electricity? I provided the numbers based upon the Energy Department. Combined to generate electricity the USA depends on over 60% coming from fossil fuel. Add to that the fact that the US becomes totally dependent on an unfriendly power for the materials needed to build EV's which may not bother you or the fact that the countries we get the minerals from for batteries use slave child labor to get those minerals. That may not bother you either while some folks have a problem with it.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

Unfortunately, facts and evidence don't matter to people who are informed by media sources who complain privately about how they have to lie to their audience, because their viewers are stupid and the truth will "upset them."

You need to look into the details. As an example those numbers include the government providing dollars for free parking.. how that is a fossil fuel issue is beyond me...I suspect you don't look into how much of that is related to products that are used in more than automobiles. Might want to also check out all the places oil is used to produce product besides gasoline. Let me add you do know that 60% of electricity is produced using some form of fossil fuel. Straight from the Energy Department.

 

[KimoCarew]

You need to look into the details. As an example those numbers include the government providing dollars for free parking.. how that is a fossil fuel issue is beyond me...I suspect you don't look into how much of that is related to products that are used in more than automobiles. Might want to also check out all the places oil is used to produce product besides gasoline. Let me add you do know that 60% of electricity is produced using some form of fossil fuel. Straight from the Energy Department.

Believe whatever makes you feel good.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

Believe whatever makes you feel good.

How about do you refute what the Energy Department has documented? Do you refute child slave labor is used to mine critical minerals used t produce a battery. Do you refute that China owns most of the raw materials required to build a battery? Do you refute that China is not friendly to the US? If you do refute that information, please list your sources to do that. By the way none of the information I provided makes me feel good and that is one of the reasons I believe you don't settle for a single source solution when there are other options.

 

[KimoCarew]

How about do you refute what the Energy Department has documented? Do you refute child slave labor is used to mine critical minerals used t produce a battery. Do you refute that China owns most of the raw materials required to build a battery? Do you refute that China is not friendly to the US? If you do refute that information, please list your sources to do that. By the way none of the information I provided makes me feel good and that is one of the reasons I believe you don't settle for a single source solution when there are other options.

Who won the last US presidential election?

 

[mspmms]

Who won the last US presidential election?

Seems like a good time for a reply with a reply:

Believe whatever makes you feel good.

 

[mr mojo risen]

Believe whatever makes you feel good.

You should take your own advice my friend…..

 

[TyPope]

They get better with the rolling blackout when the weather changes and less folks are using their heating and cooling. Did you factor in the amount of fuel ( fossil type) used to generate electricity? I provided the numbers based upon the Energy Department. Combined to generate electricity the USA depends on over 60% coming from fossil fuel. Add to that the fact that the US becomes totally dependent on an unfriendly power for the materials needed to build EV's which may not bother you or the fact that the countries we get the minerals from for batteries use slave child labor to get those minerals. That may not bother you either while some folks have a problem with it.

Electricity can come from many sources, of course. Using children to separate cobalt is just wrong. Tesla, for one, has moved away from using cobalt at all. At least the industry is aware there are issues and working to get past them. Further, moving production domestically will help. It does suck to be beholden to other countries for energy needs so moving to make that less important is great.

(Where I am, we get 48% of our electricity from coal and 18% from nuclear... So, not super clean)

Just think if we could cut oil needs by even 25%... We'll never get off of it completely, of course, but watch as overall pollution levels drop.

Hey, the electricity to produce gasoline also comes from those same sources.

Coal to Electricity to gas to car
Or,
Coal to Electricity to car.

(Coal, nuclear, solar, wind, soil, whatever... something starts the energy process and that's the same for gas and EVs)

Eliminating one step is cool.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

Who won the last US presidential election?

That's your response? That is what you come up with. You do know there are three branches of Government and that the President does not pass laws or budgets right?

 

[mr mojo risen]

That's your response? That is what you come up with. You do know there are three branches of Government and that the President does not pass laws or budgets right?

You're responding to a poster who deflects. We need to stop wasting our time.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

Electricity can come from many sources, of course. Using children to separate cobalt is just wrong. Tesla, for one, has moved away from using cobalt at all. At least the industry is aware there are issues and working to get past them. Further, moving production domestically will help. It does suck to be beholden to other countries for energy needs so moving to make that less important is great.

(Where I am, we get 48% of our electricity from coal and 18% from nuclear... So, not super clean)

Just think if we could cut oil needs by even 25%... We'll never get off of it completely, of course, but watch as overall pollution levels drop.

Hey, the electricity to produce gasoline also comes from those same sources.

Coal to Electricity to gas to car
Or,
Coal to Electricity to car.

(Coal, nuclear, solar, wind, soil, whatever... something starts the energy process and that's the same for gas and EVs)

Eliminating one step is cool.

Over 60% of electricity comes from Fossil Fuels. Fossil fuels are used in more then gasoline. The Carbon Footprint to build an EV is 74% greater then to build a gasoline powered vehicle. Takes 8 years to break even. Cut 25% and what do you replace it with? We already know that the electrical grid is in dire need of repair and expansion and doesn't produce electricity but rather carries it and going 100% electric won't be supported by the current grid. IMHO thee needs to be more then one solution. Why no talk about nuclear as an option. You ae aware that we have 93 nuclear plants in the US. Waste is the issue with that just as waste is an issue for batteries. Both polute the planet. You are aware that the minerals needed to build current batteries is not plentiful in the US. Seems like the US is a long way away from successful conversion without foundation to make the transition. Without the infrastructure to support this move I suspect folks are going ot be surprised when they find out the cost and I don't just mean in dollars. By the way you are aware that there are clean coal firing plants being built and existing plants can be modified. Of course it appears the government doesn't want to hear that. Let me add, there have been calculations on how much this transition will improve the planet and it's miniscule and as long as no one pulls in the reigns on China's polution which uses dirty coal firing plants for their manufacturing the problem doesn't go away

 

[colinl]

You're responding to a poster who deflects. We need to stop wasting our time.

surprised he hasn't been smacked with the banhammer for politics, but in cases like this, I find the Ignore feature very handy. click his name, click ignore. enjoy.

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