Interesting Op-Ed in today’s Wall Street Journal (CLOSED DUE TO POLITICS)

[Old Hickory Trojan]

I worked in the hydrogen world for about 3 years.

You can't carry enough hydrogen with you to be practical. Range is less than higher end battery EV's. Range 200-250 miles.

And those of you worried about 400 volt batteries in a collision, how do you feel about a 10,000 psi hydrogen tank in a collision?

"Improved versions of these tanks made of high-strength composite materials are now used to store hydrogen at higher pressures (up to 10,000 psi) to achieve greater driving range in hydrogen-fueled vehicles."

Might want to get your facts right. Toyota's vehicle that they sold in California have a range of approximately 432 miles and who said they were worried about 400 volt batteries in a collision? I'd be more worried of accidently touching that nice orange cable running to the battery....you know the one Ford has that you can use to drag the dead mechanic out from under the vehicle.

energy.gov

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[Old Hickory Trojan]

Facts and evidence do not matter to the uninformed, loud and proud crowd. Where are the startup hydrogen car makers that are attracting capital? How about the capital flowing to new ICE manufacturers, or even existing ones? The previous posters on this thread would just claim that their absence is evidence of a "globalist bureaucratic" conspiracy organized by the Chinese. Pretty gd pathetic.

It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled.

Might want to check out Toyota since their car goes about 432 miles on Hydrogen and I haven't heard of any of them blowing up since they started selling them. As far as a conspiracy tell us again why the Government is so heavily involved in pushing EV's when they have not done anything to fix the electrical grid to support the push for EV's. Tell us why we want to depend on source materials from China who is our enemy when we have resources available in this country to support our energy needs without begging the Saudi's for oil or draining the US Emergency Oil Reserve and killing pipelines and permits all the while pretending oil is just used to manufacture gasoline.

 

[mr mojo risen]

Follow-up editorial from the WSJ on the “Inflation Reduction Act” and its impact on EVs, renewable power etc. The goal is to make EVs too big to fail regardless of the impact to the federal budget; i.e, the taxpayers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/inflation-reduction-act-subsidies-cost-goldman-sachs-report-5623cd29

 

[GPSMan]

Where is hydrogen for cars going to come from?

Did you know it is such a small, light molecule if you release it into the atmosphere it will escape earth's gravity, float up into outer space, never to return?

Talk about a non-renewable resource.
And helium is more rare than gold. It's only cheap because no one really wants it. But when it's gone, it's gone.

Having worked with Hydrogen, it is such a small, what I call "slippery" molecule it leaks like a sieve. You can't contain it. It leaks from every joint. Always. Gaskets will not hold it. No way around it other than 100% welded joints 100% of the time. Can't use flexible, porous materials like rubber hoses either.

And of course it burns with an invisible
smokeless flame when leaks do ignite.
And leaks ignite very easily.

"The only gases that regularly escape Earth's atmosphere today are hydrogen and helium, the lightest elements in the universe. There are several ways hydrogen and helium molecules can wind up on a one-way mission to space."

www.britannica.com

 

[KimoCarew]

Thank goodness that Mr. Farley is leading Ford. His strategy appears to be correct and while this isn't a guarantee of success, choosing the wrong strategy is a guarantee of failure. We are still at the beginning of Li battery manufacturing and while there are problems to solve, the progress that has been made is remarkable. My little Mav represents a step in the right direction for Ford and I absolutely love it. The future will be exciting, thanks to leaders like Mr. Farley and politicians who base policy on science and reason.

 

[Bob The Builder]

Ford losing 3 Billion a year on their money pit EV's. The other auto makers can't be far behind. How can any company, even on as big as Ford afford to lose Billions a year on a hopeless fiasco such as EV cars. I call it a fiasco because even with the gummint subsidies it is still an over the top losing proposition. Interesting.

HEV & PHEV make sense. Battery powered tools make sense. 100% battery powered cars, well not so much. Apparently most car buyers agree.

 

[Bob The Builder]

Where is hydrogen for cars going to come from?

Did you know it is such a small, light molecule if you release it into the atmosphere it will escape earth's gravity, float up into outer space, never to return?

Talk about a non-renewable resource.
And helium is more rare than gold. It's only cheap because no one really wants it. But when it's gone, it's gone.

Having worked with Hydrogen, it is such a small, what I call "slippery" molecule it leaks like a sieve. You can't contain it. It leaks from every joint. Always. Gaskets will not hold it. No way around it other than 100% welded joints 100% of the time. Can't use flexible, porous materials like rubber hoses either.

And of course it burns with an invisible
smokeless flame when leaks do ignite.
And leaks ignite very easily.

"The only gases that regularly escape Earth's atmosphere today are hydrogen and helium, the lightest elements in the universe. There are several ways hydrogen and helium molecules can wind up on a one-way mission to space."

www.britannica.com

I remember seeing a Led Zeppelin album cover that depicts those hydrogen leaks you talk about. True story.

 

[APD]

I made a meme

 

[GPSMan]

Time to grip reality.
Gasoline was the best solution for what we wanted it to do.

Unfortunately it is in limited supply and pollutes.

Time to come to grips with there may never be a substance with the energy per pound of refined gasoline and even more so diesel.

It was a good ride for 150 years.
Time for something new.
We may have to lower expectations.
EV's with 100, even 200 miles per charge are very reasonable devices.

We just have to change our mindsets.
Don't you recharge your phone every day? I bet very few people charge their phones only once a week.

Get over yourselves.
Forget about one charge in your car lasting a week like one tank of gas does.

The moment people accept daily or nightly charging is the moment $25k EV's become a reality.

 

[KimoCarew]

COLOGNE, Germany, March 21, 2023 – Ford today revealed the new all-electric Explorer – a bold new electric vehicle that combines German engineering with striking American style.

Explorer is the first in a wave of innovative new electric vehicles from Ford and forges the way for a complete reinvention of the Ford brand in Europe. The mid-size crossover has seats for five across two rows and is fully equipped to set families on the road to adventure.

Engineered and built in Germany, the all-electric Explorer offers an outstanding digital experience, helping drivers and passengers stay connected and comfortable on the move. Features include a SYNC Move 2 supersized movable touchscreen and fully connected infotainment system with audio tailored to the interior, wireless app integration and advanced driver assistance technology. 3

Adventure-ready design and storage of about 470 litres in five-seat mode make Ford’s newest electric vehicle ideal for exploring the city and beyond. The 17-litre console between driver and front-seat passenger can hold a 15-inch laptop, combined with a private locker and available hands-free accessible boot space, Ford’s all-electric Explorer sets a new standard.

Futuristic exterior styling is matched by an ultra-modern interior with premium materials and features such as sculpted sporty seats and a sophisticated soundbar more typical of revolutionary concept cars than family vehicles. All this comes together with the ability to fast charge from 10 to 80 per cent in just 25 minutes 1 and access, by next year, to 500,000 charging points across Europe.

“Explorer is a trailblazer for a new breed of exciting Ford electric vehicles. Steeped in our American roots but built in Cologne for our customers in Europe, it is road trip-ready for the big adventures and fully loaded with everything our customers will need for their daily drives,” said Martin Sander, general manager, Ford Model e, Europe.

Stylish, smart and road-trip ready

At the forefront of Ford’s electric vehicle charge, the new all-electric Explorer is the company’s first electric vehicle to be built at scale in the new Ford Cologne EV Centre in Germany. Ford in Europe is committed to offering an all-electric portfolio of passenger vehicles by 2030.

An aerodynamic exterior captures the spirit and assertive style of Ford’s iconic American SUV for a new electric era, also defined by a bold “shield” design in lieu of a traditional grille.

Explorer’s SYNC Move infotainment system 2 not only keeps occupants connected but also features a movable 15‑inch touchscreen that can smoothly slide up and down to suit the driver and conceals a private locker storage space for valuables. A compartment for two large smartphones comes with a wireless device charger 4 as standard, and SYNC Move provides wireless compatibility with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. 5

Charging can be quick and easy, whether en route or at home. Explorer can help find the most convenient pit stops on the road. Charging at home can be scheduled to use cheaper electricity where available, and to deliver a full battery and pre-warmed cabin for early starts.

Available as rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive variants, Explorer offers a raft of features to ensure drivers and passengers are as refreshed and ready to go when they have reached their destination as when they set outComfort-boosting standard specification includes heated front seats and steering wheel, a massaging driver’s seat and climate control that allows driver and front passenger to choose their own temperature. Even returning to the crossover is made simple with standard keyless entry and an available hands-free tailgate that means owners can access the boot when their arms are filled with sports kit using a simple kicking motion beneath the rear bumper.

Advanced driver assistance systems include, for the first time on a Ford in Europe, Assisted Lane Change 3 for smoothly and safely changing lanes at the push of an indicator stalk, and Clear Exit Assist 3 that provides warnings of approaching cyclists before opening doors in busy city centres.

Real-life adventure

To help demonstrate the Explorer’s capabilities, Ford has teamed up with travel adventure influencer Lexie Alford – known to millions as Lexie Limitless and the youngest person to visit every country in the world – for a global expedition in the new all-electric Explorer. Inspired by original female explorer, Aloha Wanderwell, who set a record 100 years ago with a Ford-sponsored round-the-world trip in a Model T, Lexie will lead a new round-the-world expedition beginning later this year.

Customers can from today also experience virtual electric Explorer test drives through a range of intrepid driving environments from their desktop or mobile device.

Available in two highly specified versions – Explorer and Explorer Premium – the new all-electric Explorer can be ordered from later this year, with pricing anticipated from less than €45,000.6 Reservations are now open at Ford official websites across Europe.

 

[Deleted member 14823]

Seems like everyone is choosing a winner and arguing about it, when maybe the answer will be all of the above. Hybrids running on synthetic fuel (using carbon capture tech, like they're moving to in auto sports) for larger vehicles, enthusiast vehicles, or for the buyers that don't have the infrastructure to easily charge or who travel long distances on a regular basis. Then, EVs for people who have short commutes and have the ability to charge nightly.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/11/24/motogp-racing-towards-the-fuel-of-the-future/403155

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37872650/formula-1-auto-racing-sustainable-fuel/

 

[GPSMan]

Some details left out of the Explorer EV:

Base Model: 168 HP, less than a Chevy Bolt's 200 HP.

Base Model: 150 mile range
Base Model Bolt: 256 mile range

Base Model: 52 kWh battery vs. Chevy Bolt at 66 kWh.

Pretty feeble for an SUV if you ask me.

 

[Thoron99]

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...350-additional-jobs-and-bev-battery-capacity/


Toyota announced an additional investment of $2.5 billion in its newest North American facility, Toyota Battery Manufacturing North Carolina (TBMNC). This investment adds capacity to support battery electric vehicle (BEV) battery production and adds 350 jobs, bringing the total employment to approximately 2,100. Scheduled to begin production in 2025, the facility will produce batteries for hybrid electric vehicles (HEV) and BEVs.

Last year, Toyota Motor Corporation announced a global investment of approximately $70 billion (8 trillion JPY*) for electrification efforts. Today, as part of this aspirational goal, TMC announced a future battery production commitment of up to $5.6 billion (730 billion JPY), which includes the new North Carolina investment.

“This marks another significant milestone for our company,” said Norm Bafunno, senior vice president, Unit Manufacturing and Engineering at Toyota Motor North America.“This plant will serve a central role in Toyota’s leadership toward a fully electrified future and will help us meet our goal of carbon neutrality in our vehicles and global operations by 2035.”

 

[Bigbill27]

Ford’s shareholders know the ice business is closing in on its sell by date. I hope Mr Farley is successful in the transition… I’ll do my part if I ever get a chance to order the Lightning I have reserved.

Full electric sounds great when you listen to the advertisers, but the reality is that we will lose our current freedom of movement and convenience of movement around the country until or unless there is a major leap in electric technology which enables the electric car to match or exceed the convenience of using gas cars. Until then, they will have to be force fed from Uncle Sam.

 

[colinl]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "soon", but every major auto manufacturer disagrees with you

for some, it's simply a hedge. they have to do it for market presence and shareholder expectations.

despite all the hype, there are many obvious challenges to full EV adoption. the market was, and perhaps still is, heading towards hybrid superiority.

I'm very curious when environmental groups and the EPA will take a serious interest in battery waste but not going to dive into the politics of that. simply an observation that it appears today that they are not interested.

Where is hydrogen for cars going to come from?

this a very easy question to answer. it's going to be separated from water. they're working on technology to do that which fits in a vehicle, and then they have another challenge in making it affordable, but it can be done in equipment today.

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