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Hybrid fee (tax) in your state? [CLOSED DUE TO POLITICS]

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Rob Daman

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No hybrid fees in California but all "trucks" are classified as commercial vehicles so we pay more than cars due to that.
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Decayed

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Our cultural warrior Arkansas govt decided to punish full electric vehicle owners with a $200 fee. And hybrid owners with $100. Hmmm. All in the name of making up for lost gas tax revenue. Hmmm. I noticed they aren't offering a rebate to folks driving gas guzzlers. Just following their logic. I see these fees as punishment for something see as Liberal.
Nothing is free.

Gas taxes pay for roads. With an EV you don't pay gas taxes but are still using roads. "Gas guzzlers" are therefore paying for the roads you use.

The .gov will always get theirs.
 

mamboman777

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Nothing is free.

Gas taxes pay for roads. With an EV you don't pay gas taxes but are still using roads. "Gas guzzlers" are therefore paying for the roads you use.

The .gov will always get theirs.
This is a reasonable explanation. Thank you.

At first glance I thought the hybrid or electric tax the most rediculous thing I've heard of, but this actually makes some sense
 

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This is a reasonable explanation. Thank you.

At first glance I thought the hybrid or electric tax the most rediculous thing I've heard of, but this actually makes some sense
They would have to somehow tax EV charging in order to make up the lost revenue.

Gas taxes were always kind of a mileage tax by proxy, but at least you could lower your expense by getting a more efficient car and driving it carefully. Not a fan of straight mileage taxes because there's no work around like that. Everyone benefits from roads even if they don't drive, so it's not really fair to hang the full cost on the shoulders of people who drive more.
 

olderbudwiser

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What the heck does having a gasoline tax have anything to do with what you are saying.

I am advocating having a mileage tax that produces the same revenue as the current taxes does.

A mileage based tax should produce the same tax revenue so bridges/roads/highways still get built and roads/highways repaired.

A mileage tax is the fairest as those who are the heaviest or drives the most are the ones who both benefit from roads but also wear them down the most.

Current examples for this is toll roads, you drive further you pay more.

Semi's have to be weighed because the heavier they are the more road wear they cause.
How would our government track your mileage. Honor system?

That would be cool. I drive 5 miles a day. Trust me.

Only way that works is if your vehicle has a tracker so someone knows how far you drive and exactly where you are all the time. There are data recorders all ready on vehicles but I don't think Ford or GM bothers to watch you 24/7

Then gas tax goes to zero?

The mileage tax would be a very slippery slope. States and the Federal abuse their ability to tax fuel right now, a mileage tax would be wonderful for the pro tax people.

Perhaps I misunderstood your view on mileage tax.
 

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mamboman777

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They would have to somehow tax EV charging in order to make up the lost revenue.

Gas taxes were always kind of a mileage tax by proxy, but at least you could lower your expense by getting a more efficient car and driving it carefully. Not a fan of straight mileage taxes because there's no work around like that. Everyone benefits from roads even if they don't drive, so it's not really fair to hang the full cost on the shoulders of people who drive more.
I hear ya. I do think that it's somewhat fair for people who drive more to pay more because in theory, they're adding more wear to the road. 🤷‍♂️
 

BullyHayes

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Everyone benefits from roads even if they don't drive, so it's not really fair to hang the full cost on the shoulders of people who drive more.

Agreed, everyone benefits by roads. And everyone, car owner or not, pay the fees and taxes. You don't think truckers, etc. just suck it up when they pay their gas taxes? Same when they'll be driving electric trucks. It all rolls downhill and the consumer does end up paying for the expenses paid by the producer and transporters. It's how markets work.
 

Montykeel

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Maybe my original post should acknowledged a need for the state of AR to protect and stabilize tax revenue. But it seems to me, they used the most blunt tool possible, while also sticking it to folks who are trying to do something better.
 

KeinoDoggy

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$100 75 for any kind of hybrid or EV here in WI. Sure owned the libs on that one
Ohio is completely controlled by the republican party in Columbus for many years now. Last year they passed big increase on gas tax, $100/yr hybrid registration tax and $200/yr on PHEVs and EVs. So your comment doesn't hold water.
 

Xbbqpitmaster

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I wish states would just get rid of all gas taxes and/or fees on electric/hybrid vehicles and just go with a cost per mile driven charge as that would be fair to all drivers. Those that drive more (thus causing wear and tear on roads) would pay more.

The above could be done easily for states that require a pollution/safety inspection. Just note the odometer reading change from last inspection to the current one.
So when everyone from another state drive through yours, they will not pay any “tax” like they do now when they purchase gas… therefore, you will end up paying more especially if you are in a high traffic tourist state.
 
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huunvubu

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How would our government track your mileage. Honor system?

That would be cool. I drive 5 miles a day. Trust me.

Only way that works is if your vehicle has a tracker so someone knows how far you drive and exactly where you are all the time. There are data recorders all ready on vehicles but I don't think Ford or GM bothers to watch you 24/7

Then gas tax goes to zero?

The mileage tax would be a very slippery slope. States and the Federal abuse their ability to tax fuel right now, a mileage tax would be wonderful for the pro tax people.

Perhaps I misunderstood your view on mileage tax.
There is no honor among thieves so no it will not be an honor system.

Modern vehicles including the Ford Maverick can report the odometer reading. The FordPass app can read this remotely so that is one way.

Currently I have AllState as my insurance provider and am on the milewise program with them where they charge me a daily fee and a mileage fee for insurance. In order to do that they provide an OBD II device that plugs into the OBD II port on my vehicle. That device can see the odometer reading and other data. So that is another way.

The milewise program is a great program for those of us who drive very little.

Right now the abuse are the states that charge a surcharge on hybrid vehicles.

A mileage/weight based tax/fee is fair for everyone as it charges actual miles driven not some assumed number like 12,000 miles yearly or just slapping on some fixed yearly fee.

Example: one driver drives 20,000 yearly so with a $100 tax/fee for having a hybrid pays an additional $0.005 per mile driven whereas a driver who drives 2000 miles yearly and pays the same $100 tax/fee pays an additional $0.05 per mile driven or ten times the rate per mile than the high mile driver. Notice how unfair it is to the low mileage driver as the high mileage driver wears down the roads more than the low mileage driver yet pays the same $100 fee/tax.
 

olderbudwiser

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There is no honor among thieves so no it will not be an honor system.

Modern vehicles including the Ford Maverick can report the odometer reading. The FordPass app can read this remotely so that is one way.

Currently I have AllState as my insurance provider and am on the milewise program with them where they charge me a daily fee and a mileage fee for insurance. In order to do that they provide an OBD II device that plugs into the OBD II port on my vehicle. That device can see the odometer reading and other data. So that is another way.

The milewise program is a great program for those of us who drive very little.

Right now the abuse are the states that charge a surcharge on hybrid vehicles.

A mileage/weight based tax/fee is fair for everyone as it charges actual miles driven not some assumed number like 12,000 miles yearly or just slapping on some fixed yearly fee.

Example: one driver drives 20,000 yearly so with a $100 tax/fee for having a hybrid pays an additional $0.005 per mile driven whereas a driver who drives 2000 miles yearly and pays the same $100 tax/fee pays an additional $0.05 per mile driven or ten times the rate per mile than the high mile driver. Notice how unfair it is to the low mileage driver as the high mileage driver wears down the roads more than the low mileage driver yet pays the same $100 fee/tax.
I think where I disagree its not fair. In some urban areas homes , rent are astronomical. So a family may have to move 30 miles to get some affordable housing. Family buys a fuel efficient car. Now because they cannot afford house payments or rent they are penalized for driving too much.

Where does one draw the line?

Once you open a new tax stream it grows and grows.

Regardless of what side of the isle one comes down on both sides have only desire, grab you by your ankles hold you upside down and shake out as much money as the can.

In a perfect world you version would be great. Heck I'm retired so my driving is limited.

I suppose we could also use a version for education. No children no school taxes. One child = $$, two children = $$$, more children = $$$$$$$$. Kinda same thing pay for what you use. No?
 

NJ Pinelands

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In New Jersey where everything including breathing air is taxed, electric vehicles and plug in hybrids get a $5,000 rebate from the state and electric vehicles do not have to pay the 6.625 sales tax so they save BIG time. As far as I know, no state rebate or additional fees for non plug in hybrids like the Maverick.
 

brnpttmn

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I think where I disagree its not fair. In some urban areas homes , rent are astronomical. So a family may have to move 30 miles to get some affordable housing. Family buys a fuel efficient car. Now because they cannot afford house payments or rent they are penalized for driving too much.

Where does one draw the line?

Once you open a new tax stream it grows and grows.

Regardless of what side of the isle one comes down on both sides have only desire, grab you by your ankles hold you upside down and shake out as much money as the can.

In a perfect world you version would be great. Heck I'm retired so my driving is limited.

I suppose we could also use a version for education. No children no school taxes. One child = $$, two children = $$$, more children = $$$$$$$$. Kinda same thing pay for what you use. No?
You cant. Education has extreme positive externalities. Your commute is mostly negative externalities. Central urban areas are expensive because high demand and low supply. Part of the reason the supply is constrained is because, in most urban areas, large neighborhoods were destroyed for interstate highway systems used by suburban/exurban commuters. So your daily use/need of those highways helps to keep city dwellers' cost of living high. How is that fair?
 

olderbudwiser

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You cant. Education has extreme positive externalities. Your commute is mostly negative externalities. Central urban areas are expensive because high demand and low supply. Part of the reason the supply is constrained is because, in most urban areas, large neighborhoods were destroyed for interstate highway systems used by suburban/exurban commuters. So your daily use/need of those highways helps to keep city dwellers' cost of living high. How is that fair?
I am not advocatng for a mileage driven tax.

I was just making an example of taxing on mileage is similar to taxing for schools based on number of children in household.

Neither one is fair.
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