Get our elected Legislators involved in MSRP hijacking by Direct purchase from Manufacturers. [CLOSED DUE TO POLITICS]

[jbpoole]

With the changes in vehicle build-to-order production and the EV variable, I think most dealerships should think about becoming a full service center and showroom for the Manufacturer to Customer transition.
It will happen, but why not build out dealerships as a fuel/recharge/theater/coffee/burger/etc destination. Hell, add mini-golf, firing range, and Chucky cheese rec areas.

Our local Lexus dealer offers a "free" massage with their $100 oil change. They also have an in-house cafe.

BTW, my son, who didn't know any better, got the oil change. Also got a $4200 quote for work they said the car needed. His old Lexus is worth about $3-4k, if that. Got all the work done at Goodyear for $1600. This included new tires, brakes and several other things. They even found something the Lexus dealer missed, which is included in the $1600.

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[bob_vic]

Carvana depends on a network of dealerships to service their cars. If dealerships shut down in mass where are you going to go for warranty work?
I'm not saying anyone is wrong, and I'd never be the one to defend any sales department- just consider all the ramifications.

good point but I think the easiest solution would be to partner with one of the national chains to provide service. But I hear you

 

[bob_vic]

Who's gonna do your maintenance? You wanna haul your car 500 miles to the nearest repair center in the future?

said in another post they could just partner with a national chain to handle it. But I’ve only ever owned used cars and I’ve never gone 500 miles for service so don’t think that would be an issue.

 

[MattIngram]

Not an attorney. I’d suggest that folks start calling their State Attorney General’s office and filing complaints. Local legislators have heard from the dealership lobby but nobody takes the time to discuss the harm to consumers b/c we get so excited to get that vehicle that somehow all is forgiven or we are afraid to create waves. But clear, rational, factual and cogent complaints to elected representatives could provide an opposing view that may help strengthen consumer protection and weaken the dealership monopolies but those things don’t happen overnight.

 

[MattIngram]

True... and most people aren't complaining about dealers marking up their retail stock.

What most people are upset about is dealers seemingly (and sometimes explicitly) agreeing to sell for MSRP, then changing the rules when the truck shows up.

I've heard people defend this as "just the way capitalism works," but I don't agree. Instead, I think it's a form of deceptive trade practice (but probably not one that you can effectively sue on).

Just because something is done for profit doesn't make it righteous.

Not an attorney. The so called disclosures that protect the dealerships have never really been tried in court b/c dealerships are quick to settle those out. For a while dealerships tried to force mandatory arbitration agreements until they found out that springing them last minute essentially voided them. And they wanted to avoid any more unnecessary noise. It’s more of a numbers game if anything else.

Selling above MSRP is absolutely insane and a number of dealerships have privately said so. Those adjustments above MSRP are brand new, never been tried before and you’d think they would have to be disclosed to consumers before placing the order. I think two terms come to mind unconscionable and/or overly vague without an accompanying signed contract with out the door pricing disclosed. Ford should start requiring both the ID and contract to purchase in their order verification process. Simple easy fix and may substantially limit legal liability for Ford and the dealership.

 

[campjake]

Supply and demand, no one is complaining about the extra 3-5K that their trade in is worth now. If you look at Fords build page theres a disclaimer about actual price may vary. I found a dealer that guaranteed me MSRP with no mark up. The first dealership I tried wanted 5K market adjustment and I told them “good luck” with that you won’t get my business.

Supply and demand is a tired argument. We are talking about a moral issue here, and supply and demand is an economic concept, not a moral one. It's common to think that supply and demand settles moral issues, but it doesn't.

 

[Captain]

Not an attorney. The so called disclosures that protect the dealerships have never really been tried in court b/c dealerships are quick to settle those out. For a while dealerships tired to force mandatory arbitration agreements until they found out that springing them last minute essentially voided them. And they wanted to avoid any more unnecessary noise. It’s more of a numbers game if anything else.

Selling above MSRP is absolutely insane and a number of dealerships have privately said so. Those adjustments above MSRP are brand new, never been tried before and you’d think they would have to be disclosed to consumers before placing the order. I think two terms come to mind unconscionable and/or overly vague without an accompanying signed contract with out the door pricing disclosed.

Hence the Maroney Sticker(window Sticker) as well as the fact that you can do a lot to your vehicle within reason and it can’t hurt your warranty, that’s why you can buy non Ford or Chevy or mopar parts for your car.

 

[DryHeat]

Without the dealership infrastructure, there isn't enough profit to support stand alone warranty repair centers outside of large cities. Shut down dealerships across the country and see what happens to our economy.

I don't advocate shutting the dealerships down, but I would like to change the laws that prevent direct sale. Maybe dealerships would be uneconomic without that special legal protection, maybe not.

I'm willing to "see what happens" -- particularly since this can be done on a state-by-state basis. Try it in a few states and see how it goes.

Personally, I don't think it would result in absence of warranty repair services. There would still be money to be made -- both in repair fees and parts sales -- and people who want to make it.

[EDIT] Here's an article from the FTC website talking about loosening state restrictions.
Direct-to-consumer auto sales: It’s not just about Tesla | Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov)

 

[DryHeat]

Not an attorney. The so called disclosures that protect the dealerships have never really been tried in court b/c dealerships are quick to settle those out.

What "disclosures" are you talking about that have never been tried in court?

 

[TSAINTS1115]

Actually, I don't think people in general do "know this." Look at all the people on this forum who have said something like, "Well, my dealer told me it would be MSRP and I have no reason to doubt that."

I think most people believe that if they see some paperwork and sign it and the dealer tells them it's a done deal then ... well ... it's a done deal. That's how dealers are able to take advantage.

And how many times have you tried, which I 100% agree with, to get the point across about doing the paperwork including locking in a price properly. While some people may not have dealt with dealerships often before there's enough information in the world in general that they are one of the places one needs to be careful doing business with.

 

[JASmith]

I just hope you aren't asking why you have to drive so far to get to a dealership when the vast majority all get shut down. I get wanting to cut out the middleman but just know that doing so comes at a cost.

If the dealership model ends, why would you have to go to a dealership at all? If you get into a car accident and you need a bumper, passenger front suspension, and wheel replaced along with paint work, do you go to a dealer? Most people would go to a auto-repair shop. If you are out of warranty and your water pump fails, do you go to a dealer? Most people know they are overpriced and go to a auto-repair shop.

If State Farm, Geico, and USAA can work with independent shops for car repairs, why can't Ford? In fact, why can't any manufacturer? With the standardization of vehicles, there's really no good reason that a technician that repairs Chevys can't repair Fords. When you drive down to AutoCare USA, a large vehicle repair chain, they don't care if you drive a Honda or Toyota, so that should mean less traveling too thanks to consolidation. A small town may not need a seven car repair shops one for Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan, but certainly they would need one or two independent car repair centers that can work on any brand.

Warranty work doesn't pay well

At least until recently, service centers were the biggest profit centers for a business:

So where does the majority of a dealership's profit come from? It's not from car sales, at least not directly. It's from the service and parts department, which accounts for the other 49.6% of the dealership's gross profits, according to NADA.

Problem is, politicians generally give two hoots about some online petition with 5 million signatures, but they do care about some of the wealthiest and most powerful individuals that can help their campaigns like Tesla, so that's why they will listen to Tesla but not some consumers over the voice of the national dealership unions that can make some big donations.

 

[BigT]

Good luck. Our elected legislators aren’t even on the same page when it comes anything. We have bigger problems than some dealers jacking prices.

 

[DryHeat]

While some people may not have dealt with dealerships often before there's enough information in the world in general that they are one of the places one needs to be careful doing business with.

I get the "freedom and responsibility" ethic. **

But if we are going to tell people they are responsible for educating themselves and protecting themselves from unscrupulous car dealers, shouldn't they have the freedom to avoid that car dealer and buy their new car from the manufacturer?

** But...

I don't agree that we should put all the responsibility on the consumer to detect and avoid the scams that businesses come up with. Businesses have the upper hand in these encounters because -- to use the current example -- they sell cars every day and you buy one every X years.

Making every consumer spend the hours necessary to become a car-scam expert before buying a car is not the way toward an efficient market. I don't want to do that, any more than I want to take botulism testing equipment into every restaurant I visit.

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