50 MPG in 50 Miles for Hybrid Maverick says Levine

[stoptothink]

Hmmm, rethinking if my choice of the Maverick hybrid was the best choice for me?

I drive about 45 miles one way to work. This comes out to: 90 x 5 = 450 miles/week. And of course whatever driving I do when I'm off. The issue for me is: most of my commuting is highway.

The hybrid thing is completely new to me, and I was not aware that hybrids get most of their fuel savings from city driving. I guess I should've understood this before ordering, but I just assumed "hey it's a hybrid, it will save gas and get me 40 mpg!"

Should I reconsider my choice of a hybrid considering my particular commute is mostly highway?

Certainly the fuel efficiency delta will be smaller at highway speeds than on the street, but the hybrid will be more efficient in virtually every situation nonetheless. The Atkinson cycle engine is developed specifically for higher efficiency at higher (highway) speeds, with the side effect of lower output at lower speeds (hence the electric motor boost). If you value fuel efficiency over the extra power offered by the ecoboost, there is no reason to reconsider.

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[KeinoDoggy]

I'm guessing you mean this quote to support your position that the regenerative braking in a hybrid is something separate from using one of the motor-generators as a generator. It doesn't, and here's why...

You may have noticed that the definition you quoted doesn't say how the energy is recaptured.

In most (probably all) hybrids regenerative braking is done by putting one or more of the electric motor-generators into generator mode and using the kinetic energy of the vehicle to turn that generator. The generator's resistance to being turned (it takes energy to generate electricity) is what causes the reduction in vehicle speed -- the regenerative braking.

Correct, but my point is that regeneration occurs not just when the vehicle's brakes are applied. The motor can charge the traction battery when the vehicle's ICE is not running and the car is coasting down hill. That is the only point I'm making. Which is why pulse and glide works so well also.

 

[DryHeat]

Anyone have a good source/data on how much the ICE is generally used directly to charge the battery? I know it's dependent on the driving conditions, but I've just assumed it's pretty minimal in city driving.

Direct answer: No, I don't have a source for that. But it's a really interesting question.

Driving on the battery alone results in constant energy loss, only some of which can be made up for by regenerative braking.

Whatever energy the car uses up for anything other than gaining speed or altitude is not available for regenerative braking. Energy used to overcome wind and rolling resistance, to maintain a constant speed, or to run lights-A/C-whatever is just lost. And the energy stored in speed or altitude is not recaptured 100% by the regenerative system.

I hope to get to test this in person before I age out of driving. But my guess is that, in my hot climate, the ICE will come on fairly frequently to charge the battery. We'll see.

 

[buckaroo]

Yeah, I won't be doing any heavy hauling, except for very light stuff like yard waste (grass) to our local transfer station.

That's the sprit, you got it right. As pointed out here you'll have the CVT to get your bonus mileage on the hwy. The beauty in all this is no Turbo or Direct Injection. Doubtful the 2.0 will last even 75,000 miles. And if it does will nickle and dime ya, until you replace that Turbo, then we get to 4 figures.

 

[KeinoDoggy]

Direct answer: No, I don't have a source for that. But it's a really interesting question.

Driving on the battery alone results in constant energy loss, only some of which can be made up for by regenerative braking.

Whatever energy the car uses up for anything other than gaining speed or altitude is not available for regenerative braking. Energy used to overcome wind and rolling resistance, to maintain a constant speed, or to run lights-A/C-whatever is just lost. And the energy stored in speed or altitude is not recaptured 100% by the regenerative system.

I hope to get to test this in person before I age out of driving. But my guess is that, in my hot climate, the ICE will come on fairly frequently to charge the battery. We'll see.

Everyone should keep in mind, the battery will never get to the point of depletion. I get the impression that some here think you start driving on the battery's power and when it is depleted, the ICE takes over. That is not how it works. The computer will not allow that. If the battery level gets low enough, the computer will turn on the ICE. A hybrid is not going to run on the battery alone the majority of time. It works in conjunction with the ICE.

 

[DryHeat]

Correct, but my point is that regeneration occurs not just when the vehicle's brakes are applied. The motor can charge the traction battery when the vehicle's ICE is not running and the car is coasting down hill.

This exchange has been about whether the energy in the system all comes originally from gasoline.
So I guess I'm having trouble understanding exactly what your point is -- sorry about that.

Some simple questions might help me understand:

(1) Where do you think the energy comes from that turns the motor to charge the battery when coasting downhill with ICE off?

(2) Do you think that such turning of the generator (without ICE running) applies a braking force to the vehicle?

 

[CASD57]

For a Daily commuter in town and occasional home project use..I would get the Hybrid which I am.
But even if your commute is 90/10 Freeway/city your still going to avg out better than the Ecoboost at 29/30mpg freeway .
I also bought a Ecoboost AWD because for me (mostly city) I'll see about 10+ mpg more than my current truck and that will make me happy
If the XL AWD doesn't make me happy overall ....My hybrid should come along within a month of the XL AWD and the XL will be sold to some lucky person, who doesn't want to wait till next spring ...

 

[brnpttmn]

Everyone should keep in mind, the battery will never get to the point of depletion. I get the impression that some here think you start driving on the battery's power and when it is depleted, the ICE takes over. That is not how it works. The computer will not allow that. If the battery level gets low enough, the computer will turn on the ICE. A hybrid is not going to run on the battery alone the majority of time. It works in conjunction with the ICE.

Yeah. I guess the larger question is: when does it make sense to charge the battery with the ICE? In most cases it'd be more efficient to move the car with the ICE rather than charge the battery to power the electric motor to move the car. I get that it's needed sometimes when the battery is low, but otherwise I'd expect that it's pretty minimal.

 

[brnpttmn]

For a Daily commuter in town and occasional home project use..I would get the Hybrid which I am.
But even if your commute is 90/10 Freeway/city your still going to avg out better than the Ecoboost at 29/30mpg freeway .
I also bought a Ecoboost AWD because for me (mostly city) I'll see about 10+ mpg more than my current truck and that will make me happy
If the XL AWD doesn't make me happy overall ....My hybrid should come along within a month of the XL AWD and the XL will be sold to some lucky person, who doesn't want to wait till next spring ...

Yep.

 

[KeinoDoggy]

This exchange has been about whether the energy in the system all comes originally from gasoline.
So I guess I'm having trouble understanding exactly what your point is -- sorry about that.

Some simple questions might help me understand:

(1) Where do you think the energy comes from that turns the motor to charge the battery when coasting downhill with ICE off?

(2) Do you think that such turning of the generator (without ICE running) applies a braking force to the vehicle?

DryHeat.
I was just pointing out that the original post did not mention that regeneration comes from more than one source. I have no argument with his statement regarding the energy starts with the ICE. I do believe I've somehow not made my point clear. Hopefully this resolves it.

 

[Wasatch-Man]

That's the sprit, you got it right. As pointed out here you'll have the CVT to get your bonus mileage on the hwy. The beauty in all this is no Turbo or Direct Injection. Doubtful the 2.0 will last even 75,000 miles. And if it does will nickle and dime ya, until you replace that Turbo, then we get to 4 figures.

Yeah, I also didn't factor CVT!

I'm probably the least technical person on this forum, but love the fact we can post questions and get technical expertise and recommendations from other, more knowledgeable members!

Thanks again for your insights!

 

[bgn]

That's the sprit, you got it right. As pointed out here you'll have the CVT to get your bonus mileage on the hwy. The beauty in all this is no Turbo or Direct Injection. Doubtful the 2.0 will last even 75,000 miles. And if it does will nickle and dime ya, until you replace that Turbo, then we get to 4 figures.

The 3.5 Ecoboost engines/turbos on the F-150 have been fine for longer than 75k. I don't expect that to change on the Maverick.

 

[KeinoDoggy]

Yeah. I guess the larger question is: when does it make sense to charge the battery with the ICE? In most cases it'd be more efficient to move the car with the ICE rather than charge the battery to power the electric motor to move the car. I get that it's needed sometimes when the battery is low, but otherwise I'd expect that it's pretty minimal.

The driver does not control when the battery gets charged. The computer does. The traction battery in a normal hybrid is not used as the primary form for propulsion unless your hybrid is like a Chevy Volt where the ICE charges the battery and the traction battery drives the wheels 100% of the time.

 

[buckaroo]

@bgn,


I hear ya, I'm operating on a shoestring and can't run the risk. Last turbo I had crapped out at 27,000 miles from a manufacture who charges $25 dollars just to shake the mechanics hand.

And the only reason why I'm even interested in the Maverick is Fords brilliant's behind this Hybrid. And you better believe it's brilliant when you get into the numbers and not just the gas numbers.

 

[clavicus]

Yeah. I guess the larger question is: when does it make sense to charge the battery with the ICE? In most cases it'd be more efficient to move the car with the ICE rather than charge the battery to power the electric motor to move the car. I get that it's needed sometimes when the battery is low, but otherwise I'd expect that it's pretty minimal.

I think it might be more complicated than that -- the traction motor has the primary gear ratios and torque for the bulk of low-end acceleration; even with electricity generation losses of energy, it may be more efficient to use the ICE as the source for electricity generation, rather than use ICE to directly drive at low speeds? Or it might do a little bit of both at the same time?

Someone else with better knowledge can complete or refute this thought: is it true that at low speed/high torque situations, the ICE actually creates electricity through the generator motor that goes more or less directly to the traction motor to add extra ooompfh beyond what the HVbattery can feed to it? AKA "series hybrid" operation?

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